POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project?

Aside from the issue itself, this is just the beginning of the antics of the "official opposition" at Council. Four long years of putting up with this sh1t.

How is this an antic of the "official opposition"?

Seems to me they are the only ones doing anything right here.

Believe in the stadium or not, proper planning and debate should be done on this thing.

So, then debate, vote against, but they're just granstanding to delay the vote. If they're arugment is so strong, then others will see their view and vote with them. If not, well, thats just democracy.

I think the more attention that is being paid to this issue and the longer it is before the public eye, the more people seem to be coming out of the ether (media) and questioning the entire deal....from the need for a stadium and where one could be built....and say we should go back to square one...

...some councillors are echoing this growing public sentiment, imo.

Who really believes that the Bombers can service a basic debt of 4mil a year for 40 years...besides Dean....

....and who is buying into the argument that it's a good deal for city tax payers because it puts the onus on provincial tax payers....the same people for the most part?

Does their logic make any sense?

...never mind their business plan....made up by fools that were always losers in their business careers...

Freeman wrote:So, then debate, vote against, but they're just granstanding to delay the vote. If they're arugment is so strong, then others will see their view and vote with them. If not, well, thats just democracy.

How can you debate it, when not enough time is being given to look at all the details?

Who says not enough time? If thats the case, I guess it will be voted down by the entire Council, won't it?

less then 24 hours is enough time for a deal such as this on which planet?

Because that is all they have been given.

Then they can vote against it, can't they, saying they need more time.

Or.... we can just follow the proper procedure layed out in the Winnipeg City Charter Act perhaps?

Not enough time? This fricken proposal has been front and centre for months and months. All the same parties were aware of all the details this whole time. The onliest thing different this time around is the price (and the fact it is ALL public money). But who here didn't predict this turn of events anyway?

Even the location has been consulted upon with MUCH public involvement.

The problem is GOM, the price and deal and the public paying for it is everything and has changed so much it aint even funny.

I am getting the feeling that this "deal" was brokered to fall EXACTLY this way all the way back in May.
oh... the bid details wont be available until AFTER the election
oh... we have a cutoff date for the bids to be accepted... 2 days after the December city council meeting


This was planned to be shoved down the throats of taxpayers.

I have NO doubt that is what happened.

My point is what more requires study? We have known all the details, plus consulted with peeps. For months. So now all that should happen is debate. Does the city want to partake in this iteration of the proposal the province has put forward? Let the councilors debate that.

If more study is required (WTF?) put that on Selinger.

Deank wrote:This was planned to be shoved down the throats of taxpayers.

Very much looks so....too many coincidences.


I don't think many peeps want more studies...I think peeps want a referendum on the subject. Straight up and down vote on this deal as it stands. If it has support, fine. If it doesn't, then back to the drawing board with something different and more acceptable to all who opposed.

There has to be some middle ground. What I feel most people object to is being f*cking jerked around by the players in this deal.

I'm all for a referendum.

Some time (lets say a week) for councilors to take in consultations with their constituents would be a great start...instead of 48 hours or less without many of the details being made public.

Now that this is totally a public works project, there should be ZERO secrets. Open the entire deal, publish it on the web so we can all see what's going on. The devil is in the details. I want to see what's been negotiated on my behalf.

I dont think a referendum is what should happen. We elected these guys to make decisions. BUT we elected them to hopefully make INFORMED decisions and be forced into those decisions.

Yes I totally understand that Bids have deadlines to be accepted, but to make those bid acceptance dates expire two days after the last council meeting of the year? Someone is playing with us. badly. They need to be held to account for that.

costs go up because council rejects this and it goes back to tender? Bill Asper for it oh... wait we cant because he was clever enough to not ever sign one single legal document putting onus on him.

Deank wrote:I dont think a referendum is what should happen. We elected these guys to make decisions. BUT we elected them to hopefully make INFORMED decisions and be forced into those decisions.

Yes I totally understand that Bids have deadlines to be accepted, but to make those bid acceptance dates expire two days after the last council meeting of the year? Someone is playing with us. badly. They need to be held to account for that.

costs go up because council rejects this and it goes back to tender? Bill Asper for it oh... wait we cant because he was clever enough to not ever sign one single legal document putting onus on him.

Your argument can and will be used against you.

"They need to be held to account for that" - your next opportunity will be during the next election.

Kind of a lame, yet accurate response 'eh? Unfortunatly there's no way to hold anyone to account until election time...therefore a referendum cuts these lying liars out of the picture and puts democracy in the hands of the folks who will be paying for this. (I realize that my statement can be responded to with a "democracy is in the hands of the electorate on election day" ... I've concluded it's a s*it sandwich anyway you look at it.)

Okay, say you are the general contractor on this project. You were originally going to receive a contract for $115 million. Now the contract will be $190 million. You telling me they will say no, we refuse this $190 million contract, if they get it two weeks later?

That's what I thought also.

But this aint the general contractor right now GOM

what has "happened" is that the general contractor put out the bids, "thinking"(HA yeah right) that it would come in sorta close to 115..maybe 130 when totalled up.

But the bids came in and it was 190. YIKES... so the general contractor goes back to the owners and they say... exfuckencuseme? (again yeah right)... so now we have a new general contractor formed .. that is saying..okay.. we will do this.. and use the bids already brought in...except those bids expire in one week.

And I can certainly tell you that YES....if the bids are not accepted as is by the date people will walk away. Because they are legally required to.

We cant just say.. oh.. its two weeks past bid expiry.. we are taking those bids anyway.. because anyone else who bid previously (and got turned down) will sue.

Nah. If people want the work, and they will, I believe they'll accept the two week delay. Least-wise anyone I know in the construction biz would.

On that alone - cancel it. Tell the contractor that the next offering will be 10% less if that's the case. Sounds like the City needs a negotiator.

The city is not leading on this. The province is.

grumpy old man wrote:The city is not leading on this. The province is.

Which is another reason why the 6 councilors grandstanding is just that. The city is on the hook for what, 7% of the cost? (I pulled that number out of the air)

We need some provincial folks doing this sort of stuff, asking who is on the hook for the Bombers' share when they fail to pay this impossible debt off.

Wasn't Gerbasi all thumbs up on this deal yesterday?

Provincial politicians are too busy sleeping their last terms away to notice something was going on. Don't disturb them, we don't want them waking up and spending even more public money before they are booted out next election.
No scorched Earth policy please!