POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project?

yeah.. how many times has the St James Pumping station been bought back eh?

grumpy old man wrote:Best comment ever on the sun site:

This just in Sam Katz has found a cure for cancer, poverty and free energy, Jenny Gerbasi opposes.
paul, December 13th 2010, 8:25am

Stranger then fiction is that Gerbasi and the Taxpayer Federation are on the same page...both want the city decision delayed (as it was).

was it delayed?

Or are we just not going to be told the details of it?

It was to be announced that the Bombers were to be on the hook for something like $3.7M a year for the next 40 years according to the genius business plan put forth by the board. The same board made up of guys that are were complete business failures btw.

I reckon they came out of the ether and said they want to discuss it behind closed doors first again.

Deank wrote:was it delayed?

Or are we just not going to be told the details of it?

Bingo!

heh but but but..

3.7 million per year is only 370K extra per game.

easy shmeaey extra $15 per seat for every game and its done.

Oh ya....filling 25K seats every game eh. Funny one Dean.

Deank wrote:was it delayed?

Or are we just not going to be told the details of it?

Kinda reminds me of another project....

JTF wrote:Oh ya....filling 25K seats every game eh. Funny one Dean.

fine then

an extra $30 per seat per game.

Deank wrote:heh but but but..

3.7 million per year is only 370K extra per game.

easy shmeaey extra $15 per seat for every game and its done.

Except... That will have an incredible dampening effect on ticket sales.

I think most everyone knows the greatest benefactor of this stadium will be the Blue Bombers. However, Bison football, high school sports, concerts... will also benefit.

How fair is it to place the onus on the Bombers to carry 100% of the burden? Unless of course they keep all revenues...

heh....and $12 hot dogs and $10 beer.

"I think most everyone knows the greatest benefactor of this stadium will be the Blue Bombers. However, Bison football, high school sports, concerts... will also benefit."

Well.. Bison Football does not really need a new stadium. Sure the stands could use some fixing up....ie... some exhaust fans in the washrooms would be nice. But not much more then that.

In fact...them playing in this new stadium could COST them some significant money.

ie.. its FAR cheaper to clean their current stadium after a low turnout game then to clean the new stadium.

high school sports? Barely. not many games besides playoffs will be held there. just like they are now and they definitely dont need a new stadium for that. IN FACT. Upgrade the current Bison Stadium and both the Bisons and high school football would benefit.

as for this "bubble" they will have over the field for amateur sports in winter. Very much doubt that any team will be able to afford the cost of the thing.

You might be mistaken about the number of high school games, but I get your point.

how so? high schools like playing on their home field. Currently they only play playoffs and "special" games at the stadium. Cant see that going up just because of a new stadium being available. The money just aint in the program to pay for it.

I recall games being played there all year. Not sure why there nor the number. Then there are the Rifles. Oh, and the Pan Am games in 2040. The Grey Cup every 7 years.

Those should be reasons enough ya know...

"I recall games being played there all year."

hmm... replacement fields for nearby teams who's home field is not available for some reason?

here's something from the Freep comments....

Here's a short version. The first number on each line represents the original proposal and the second number is the new proposal ($ million).

Without including the UM athletic facility:
City: 0 => 82
Province: 15 => 15
WFC: 15 => 70
Creswin: 85 => 0
Total: 115 => 167

Including the UM athletic facility:
City: 2.5 => 84.5
Province: 20 => 20
WFC: 15 => 70
Creswin: 85 => 0
Feds: 15 => 15
Total: 137.5 => 189.5

Note: I've allocated the property taxes on the Polo Park property to the City but the educational portion of it (whatever that amounts to) belongs to the Province.

Asper punted from stadium deal


City to pay $12.5M, Creswin to get $4M back
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/winnipeg/2010/12/13/16529986.html


F that bullshit.

Deank wrote:Asper punted from stadium deal


City to pay $12.5M, Creswin to get $4M back
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/winnipeg/2010/12/13/16529986.html


F that bullshit.

You missed the best part

"The Winnipeg Blue Bombers will be responsible for $85 million of the loan payback over four decades, Katz said."

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/breakingnews/Stadium-package-announcement-expected-111778744.html

Hilarious eh?

so basically 2 million per year. I guess they are really really counting on their bar to make money eh? Bets on them getting a bunch of VLTs where they get to keep 100% of the revenue as well?

The timeline is what gets me. Sooo... How old is the current stadium and how long ago did we start "demanding" a new one?

The City ends up paying alot more than what they are saying. I really dislike when politicians try and pull fast ones, expecially, the taxes generated will pay for something bulchit.


True , the current stadium pays no taxes , but the same will be true when it moves to their new stadium. In the end, the Stadium never di dor will contribute to the tax base.

The catch is, the newly opened lands WILL generate tax revenues. Those revenues should go to the City's bottom line. But if we divert to the bombers, then we will actually be paying for something that is FREE in the first place and always was.

Unccanny what brilliant minds we have as leadership. So whats the real cost, how about tacking on another 10 to 20 million to that cost.

lets also just pretend to forget how much interest a $190 million or whatever loan actually carries in the real world when big daddy province aint paying the interest for you.

I wonder how much is will cost to demolish the current stadium.
Will the city break even if they have to demolish the current stadium before selling the land?

Dean thsoe costs should be added, becasue the province has to borrow that money. I hear they qwere pegging the loan at 4.5%

Well whatever, its a Winnipeg deal which means in the end taxpayers will pay for it. As much creativity as a Bomber board member....zilch.

Are the Bombers essentially a white elephant?

Outsider wrote:I wonder how much is will cost to demolish the current stadium.
Will the city break even if they have to demolish the current stadium before selling the land?

Well... it cost about 2 million to dispose of the arena. The stadium "should" be cheaper but who knows.


I was wondering about the demo cost as well. You know thats being ignored here.

So the land will sit...No one to come forward and then the city will say. Okay lets tear this puppy down, that will add value!

ITS SO DAMN CRAZY!

Lets pretend everything goes amazingly.

2012 spring old polo park location sells.
2012 Fall New stadium opens
2013 Spring Old stadium tore down
2013 New construction starts.
2015 something is taxable and up and running at old location.
2019 Land is fully utilized.

SEVEN years we are on the hook for 1.5 million without revenue to replace it.. in a best case scenario


probable?
2012 land sells on condition of zoning approval.
2013 developer withdraws bid because zoning process keeps getting changed and denied and whatever.
2014 land sells again, at a extreme discount, city pays for demolition of site
2014 zoning process is denied, back to drawing board, back and forth for a while....
2016 construction starts
2018 something taxable is up and running
2022 land is "fully" utilized bringing in far less taxes then originally assumed 10 years into playing at new stadium, first loan payment is made at a reduced amount to what was assumed.

2052 not done paying off loan.... new stadium demanded because this one is 40 years old!

2062.. loan finished being paid off. Building is literally crumbling because so much money was going to pay off loan no maintenance was done.

2082... we finally get our domed stadium... but Global warming has caused the dome to be used so we can use air conditioning, not heat.