POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project?

Outsider wrote:I wonder how much is will cost to demolish the current stadium.
Will the city break even if they have to demolish the current stadium before selling the land?

Well... it cost about 2 million to dispose of the arena. The stadium "should" be cheaper but who knows.


I was wondering about the demo cost as well. You know thats being ignored here.

So the land will sit...No one to come forward and then the city will say. Okay lets tear this puppy down, that will add value!

ITS SO DAMN CRAZY!

Lets pretend everything goes amazingly.

2012 spring old polo park location sells.
2012 Fall New stadium opens
2013 Spring Old stadium tore down
2013 New construction starts.
2015 something is taxable and up and running at old location.
2019 Land is fully utilized.

SEVEN years we are on the hook for 1.5 million without revenue to replace it.. in a best case scenario


probable?
2012 land sells on condition of zoning approval.
2013 developer withdraws bid because zoning process keeps getting changed and denied and whatever.
2014 land sells again, at a extreme discount, city pays for demolition of site
2014 zoning process is denied, back to drawing board, back and forth for a while....
2016 construction starts
2018 something taxable is up and running
2022 land is "fully" utilized bringing in far less taxes then originally assumed 10 years into playing at new stadium, first loan payment is made at a reduced amount to what was assumed.

2052 not done paying off loan.... new stadium demanded because this one is 40 years old!

2062.. loan finished being paid off. Building is literally crumbling because so much money was going to pay off loan no maintenance was done.

2082... we finally get our domed stadium... but Global warming has caused the dome to be used so we can use air conditioning, not heat.

The whole project should be shelved for a year. I don't buy the position that construction costs are going up by the day unless we lock-in in 48hrs. We're going to see a major recession/depression in late 2011 so if we really need this stadium - we'll get it for 1/2 price then. We're going to have a flood-of-the-century in April so the province doesn't have a few hundred extra millions to burn right now anyway.

Gov Canada said today, interest rate increase would be sudden and dramatic.

Which will put a huge break on construction costs as less things are being built.

Wait one year... whats the worst that could happen? "we" end up owing even more imaginary money?

Agree Jondo . This construction issue is phony. Costs have gone down. But to use it as a threat is just one more attempt to bring somehting to the last minute and create a false crisis.

Anbyhow, just heard on CBC that 75 Million ( is this right ? I never would have thought that much coin was being sucked out in the form of taxes from one site ) of the cost will be covered by taxes generated on the old site when , and i mean when, they build on it.

75 MILION, thats the amount of taxes taxpayers will lose out on to pay for a Stadium rather than financing everything else a City needs to operate. I'm amazed they can even call this a "good" deal. But then again, look at who's crafting it and using taxpayers money is always a good deal.

In the end, cut and paste, put lipstick on the pig , this is 100% financed by taxpayers.

Is there a very slight chance that some of the old stands could maybe be handed out to local community centres for free???
Just askin'.
Well, you know, it just might be a good idea.

Electrician wrote:Is there a very slight chance that some of the old stands could maybe be handed out to local community centres for free???
Just askin'.
Well, you know, it just might be a good idea.

If this is supposed to be benefit of the new stadium, they did not just scrap the bottom of the barrel, they actually went through the bottom of the barrel.

Livio Ciaralli wrote:Agree Jondo . This construction issue is phony. Costs have gone down. But to use it as a threat is just one more attempt to bring somehting to the last minute and create a false crisis.

Anbyhow, just heard on CBC that 75 Million ( is this right ? I never would have thought that much coin was being sucked out in the form of taxes from one site ) of the cost will be covered by taxes generated on the old site when , and i mean when, they build on it.

75 MILION, thats the amount of taxes taxpayers will lose out on to pay for a Stadium rather than financing everything else a City needs to operate. I'm amazed they can even call this a "good" deal. But then again, look at who's crafting it and using taxpayers money is always a good deal.

In the end, cut and paste, put lipstick on the pig , this is 100% financed by taxpayers.

On the bright side maybe this stadium deal will actually galvanize the voters to give the Cons a chance in Manitoba.

Cons ain't going to win if they choose to stand quietly by. You are underestimating the NDP hold on power. All these taxpayer funded ventures fuel the business owners of this City who traditionally are/were conservatives. Yes, even the boneheaded west side route benefits them more if the NDP stay in power.

One can easily see that DOER became the biggest Cpaitalist conservative a socialist could ever become. His base benefits from the tax dollar s being spent.

Is Manitoba a Fiscal Conservative Province or it hasn't gotten bad enough yet. My hunch, its not bad enough so , keep spending , NDP keeps getting elected.

Sad part is he out spending tax revenue at a alarming rate . This stadium is going to happen now or then is debatable later might mean higher interest on the money .

I'm going to cherry pick from an article the sun just put on their website;

---->Creswin will be paid back $4 million of the $6.6 million it has put into the project so far, Katz said.---->No other private partner will be included in the deal. “I don’t think anybody’s really looking and I’ll be very frank, I don’t think there’s a lineup to get involved,” Katz said.
---->The university has not been asked to put in any money, he said.

---->The Bombers board of directors approved the deal Monday, saying it’s structured to ensure “continued viability of the team.”

---->Coun. Dan Vandal: “It’s a fantastic deal for the city ... There’s two options. We can move forward on a new deal ... or we can maintain the status quo and put millions of dollars into the existing Polo Park site, and I don’t think that’s something that many people want to do. I don’t think it’s sustainable for the football club.”

Crestwin will be paid back 4 million of its investment of 6.6, totaling an apparent 2.6 million dollar loss (tax deductable I'm sure). Thanks for painting us into a corner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the bombers in severe debt about 10 years ago? How does an established organization accumulate that much debt, and how is it guarantee to be able to pay off this new $70 million?

Nobody's looking to re-invest into this stadium deal. Shouldn't that be a GIANT clue to all the public bodies? How about the public in general?

Isn't this stadium being touted as a dual use facility, for both the bombers and the Bisons? Shouldn't the U of M be fronting SOME money into this project? How about the Student's Union? Maybe they should be butting money in, and in turn, have reduced fares for students (which in turn, will draw more to the stadium, increasing vendor sales)

I don't believe sinking the bombers into $70million worth of debt will ensure continued viability for the team. For a team that wasn't treading water 10 years ago, and hasn't been successful in 20 years, adding a $70 million dollar debt to their troubles just doesn't seem right. If they fail, who foots the bill? And then, of course, if they fail, what happens to the stadium?

Dear Mr. Vandal. I don't recall you asking me if I wanted a new stadium. I don't recall the city holding a referendum on this. I do recall the city holding an election in October, and I also recall NOT HEARING ONE PEEP about the stadium from ANY of the candidates!

I don't care how many times you scrub this stadium, it's a freaking dirty deal!

It's a shell game to assign any debt to the Bombers. It's being done to make the Provincial contribution look smaller than it will eventually be.

Eventually, the Bomber debt will be assumed by the Province.

Will Hugh come out and admit this when he is Premier? Or will he go along with Selinger's shell game?

This clearly demonstrates, imo, that our leaders are stupid.

Gerbasi and Vandal say this is good for Winnipeggers, forgetting that we are also Manitobans.....the same Fu ucken taxpayer asssholes!!!

There are appx 2.3% of the province population that go to the games. So how do they figure a cost/benefit for a stadium?
Would they say that on game days the hotels pick up 550 rooms, that the restaurants in the St James Street area increase sales by $48,000, that the many business' do an increase in sales?
Does anyone calculate the tax money that goes to the province through the pst, the increase in taxes that the province gets from income tax on the workers at the Bomber family, the restaurant workers earnings, the money the hotels pay to its employees?
I can understand why the NDP are stepping up, and am amazed that they have done so! Good for them.
We lost the Jets because the Conservative (Filmon) government wouldn't buy the team for $50 million dollars.
We lost a hell of a lot more than $150 million dollars just in the tax income, and the 50 games that would have been played in town.
And the streets would have been unable to handle the traffic! lol
There is a huge business with the Bombers!

Okay, so with Asper out of the deal, its just a matter of putting in public money or not, right?

That's all that's left on the table is public financing...many would say that's all that's ever been there too

rosencrentz wrote:There are appx 2.3% of the province population that go to the games. So how do they figure a cost/benefit for a stadium?
Would they say that on game days the hotels pick up 550 rooms, that the restaurants in the St James Street area increase sales by $48,000, that the many business' do an increase in sales?
Does anyone calculate the tax money that goes to the province through the pst, the increase in taxes that the province gets from income tax on the workers at the Bomber family, the restaurant workers earnings, the money the hotels pay to its employees?
I can understand why the NDP are stepping up, and am amazed that they have done so! Good for them.
We lost the Jets because the Conservative (Filmon) government wouldn't buy the team for $50 million dollars.
We lost a hell of a lot more than $150 million dollars just in the tax income, and the 50 games that would have been played in town.
And the streets would have been unable to handle the traffic! lol
There is a huge business with the Bombers!

all interesting arguments that are essentially shot down by.

If we did not have the bombers that same money would be being spent in Manitoba just on different stuff.

"spent on different stuff"? Is that all we get from DeanK? lol
Shame - spend some more time on your arguments or get off the forum! lol

I don't think they should build a new stadium anyway, just in case the Human Rights Museum runs into any financial difficulties! They have to have money for all the sofas and chairs and ottomans that they are planning to buy from me! lol
It boggles the mind when you see politicians spending money that we don't have, on things that are working as good today, actually better, than when it was built in 1953.
I sold "ice cold Pepsis" there in 1958, so I am an old time user ! lol
I know grumpy goes to games, so why don't we ask him about the seating comfort, and the good location at Polo Park as opposed to the University?

Thats all you get Rosie, because thats all it is.

snicker.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/columnists/paul_friesen/2009/04/03/8986011-sun.html


"
And if there are delays and cost overruns (insert snicker, here), guess who covers it? "I do," Asper said yesterday. "There's no public participation in overruns.""

This is just nasty - headlines should read "Manitobans ripped-off by NDP!"

You'd think our politicians had nothing else to do than get a damn football stadium off the ground. Maddening that we NEVER see this kind of focused, coordinated zeal for THE THINGS WE NEED! This is a new low for politics and people just don't see it yet. I want to see a Charter written that outlines the public's expectation of the elected. lying to the public, ignoring the public and Personal legacy projects will no longer be the acceptable routine.

wait a sec...so, Asper is out of the stadium deal...but he's somehow going to be the new owner...still?

How and more importantly why is this the case?

no no.. that was a link from a long time back.. just thought I would bring it forward for fun.

mind you this person is saying we need Asper now more then ever.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/we-need-asper-back-on-team-111839139.html

Home depot must be really really low on kneepads.

Deank wrote:no no.. that was a link from a long time back.. just thought I would bring it forward for fun.

mind you this person is saying we need Asper now more then ever.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/we-need-asper-back-on-team-111839139.html

Home depot must be really really low on kneepads.

Wow!
Stunning how far off base that ar-tard Gary Lawless is...

...is he auditioning for a job with one of Apsers' outfits?

...or providing Dave with a personal "service"..

heh.. not only that he is poor at math.

$4million per year for 40 years is 160 million.

They are "only" on hook for 85 million according to all other news reports.