accident at traffic circle in river heights, one man in hospital

You miss the point. That would be the expected result (accident) if they placed the traffic light in the middle of the road. I wonder why they hang them from above?

heh heh

Jondo wrote:You miss the point. That would be the expected result (accident) if they placed the traffic light in the middle of the road. I wonder why they hang them from above?

Not sure I follow you. So you're saying the problem is that the city assumed people would be smart enough to not drive straight into concrete?

What would we ever do if there was a street with a dead end? All drive straight into the sign and ask 'why did they put that there?'. Do people constantly break through railway barricades because they are blocking their path?

If your argument is that the problem isn't that winnipeg drivers are brutal, but we somehow can't figure out that running straight into traffic circles isn't a good idea, I don't know if that really backs it up.

umcrouc0 wrote:I'm not surprised that people may be having trouble with them at first. But I don't get why people have been complaining that there's no education about them. There's one official book on driving, and traffic circles are in it. If someone wants education on them all they need to do is look in the only source to find the answer. It's not like the information isn't available if people took 30 seconds to look for it.

You have not driven through the Grosvenor circles either have you?

I have. We had this conversation the other day. But I've only driven through them once. Oddly small but the same rules still apply.

I don't believe you've driven through those circles. Maybe through one or two, from one direction. You and sputnik should drive both ways at 8 am or 5 pm. Tell me then what you think.

grumpy old man wrote:

umcrouc0 wrote:I'm not surprised that people may be having trouble with them at first. But I don't get why people have been complaining that there's no education about them. There's one official book on driving, and traffic circles are in it. If someone wants education on them all they need to do is look in the only source to find the answer. It's not like the information isn't available if people took 30 seconds to look for it.

You have not driven through the Grosvenor circles either have you?

I have...and I do understand where umcrou is coming from.
If you're driving down a street and aren't sure what to do...how would you drive?
If there was a barricade in the way...would you just drive over it? or would you think "hey...I need to use caution and drive carefully here.

That said...They ARE very stupid creations...and I have no clue what idiot came up with the idea.
They should be removed immediately before other stupid drivers get hurt.

All we have to do is make it about "safety" and we'll get all the support we need to make these go away.

Or...use the old "will somebody PLEASE think of the Children"....that one always gets a response..

has this basically sealed the incumbents fate?

grumpy old man wrote:I don't believe you've driven through those circles. Maybe through one or two, from one direction. You and sputnik should drive both ways at 8 am or 5 pm. Tell me then what you think.

The only time I drove through them was during rush hour one day, but it was only once so it could have been a good day. If they're busy or not the way to navigate them never changes. It could become a mess because people aren't following what they are supposed to do or that the flow of traffic in one direction makes it take some time to get through the intersection from another direction (similar to a 2-way stop). But the actual rules of the road don't change.

there was an accident Monday at Harrow and Academy. Not sure what happened there... and then because traffic was so messed up from that accident another accident happened at academy and wellington

The goddamn things are dangerous because people are taking them too fast and not merging into the circles. They're either a) stopping and using it as a 4 way stop, or they're flying through at 70 KM. The bike lanes that run into the damn circles then force the bikes in front of the cars into the circle, where every driver is doing something erratic. They're unsafe pieces of sh1t.

But is that an actual problem with circles, or a problem with drivers doing whatever they want when they get to them?

both.. the designs of these small circles to not contribute to safe driving conditions AND the people are not driving them properly;

Think of it this way.

You are travelling down a major highway at night.. you have never been on this road before but expect it to be the same standard of road as you are used to. As you enter a tight corner, you realize it is not banked at all... you go flying off the road.

technically yes.. it was your fault... but also technically the road was not designed properly.

I could prove that Wpg drivers are idiots by standing in the road tonight until one of them hits me. Or I could place a blockade on my road tonight until somebody drove into it. Idiots they are. I think it's best if we back up and rather have you explain why these obstructions are being placed there to begin with - rather than focus on the idiots who have and will continue to run into them and/or cause other accidents.

On a side note. I lived on the street in the 80's where the child was killed getting off the school bus. You know what the result of that inquiry was? That the buses were being poorly operated with respect to safe exiting. What did they do as a resyult? They didn't start fining idiot drivers $700 for passing them - they mandated flip-signs, flashers (side, back and top) and drop-arms to alert drivers that somebody may be crossing the street. That's how you deal with safety - address the real issues.

Deank wrote:both.. the designs of these small circles to not contribute to safe driving conditions AND the people are not driving them properly;

Think of it this way.

You are travelling down a major highway at night.. you have never been on this road before but expect it to be the same standard of road as you are used to. As you enter a tight corner, you realize it is not banked at all... you go flying off the road.

technically yes.. it was your fault... but also technically the road was not designed properly.

So in that case I ignored the recommended speed around the turn? If so it would be completely my fault.

they never reduced the speed

Jondo wrote:I could prove that Wpg drivers are idiots by standing in the road tonight until one of them hits me. Or I could place a blockade on my road tonight until somebody drove into it. Idiots they are. I think it's best if we back up and rather have you explain why these obstructions are being placed there to begin with - rather than focus on the idiots who have and will continue to run into them and/or cause other accidents.

On a side note. I lived on the street in the 80's where the child was killed getting off the school bus. You know what the result of that inquiry was? That the buses were being poorly operated with respect to safe exiting. What did they do as a resyult? They didn't start fining idiot drivers $700 for passing them - they mandated flip-signs, flashers (side, back and top) and drop-arms to alert drivers that somebody may be crossing the street. That's how you deal with safety - address the real issues.

Little circles are typically installed to force cars to reduce their speed through areas. That's why they stick them in the middle of the road, because you can't just fly straight through. The idea is if you force traffic to slow down it makes things safer for pedestrians and cyclists. The approach is actually a lot closer to the 'signs and lights' approach on school busses, than fines. But with either you assume that drivers will actually follow them. Signs and lights on busses don't mean a thing if drivers don't stop for them. Sort of like how traffic circles don't do a thing if people don't slow down when going through them or don't yield to other traffic, pedestrians, etc.

four way stops in residential areas do far more good. one problem.. then the cyclists have to stop too.

Deank wrote:they never reduced the speed

No yellow sign with an arror and number? Or even just a yellow sign with an arrow showing there's a sharp turn coming up? They don't all have recommended limits. But in reality if you're driving at night on a road you don't know well you have to be cautious. Actually, do you know that sort of nasty corner on Riverside Drive heading towards Jubilee? That's not really marked but you can see it's a sharp corner and need to slow down. If I drove into the curb because I tried to take it too fast, I'd consider that my fault. That one can be pretty bad because there are often parked cars after it so you really need to cut your speed.

umcrouc0 wrote:

Jondo wrote:I could prove that Wpg drivers are idiots by standing in the road tonight until one of them hits me. Or I could place a blockade on my road tonight until somebody drove into it. Idiots they are. I think it's best if we back up and rather have you explain why these obstructions are being placed there to begin with - rather than focus on the idiots who have and will continue to run into them and/or cause other accidents.

On a side note. I lived on the street in the 80's where the child was killed getting off the school bus. You know what the result of that inquiry was? That the buses were being poorly operated with respect to safe exiting. What did they do as a resyult? They didn't start fining idiot drivers $700 for passing them - they mandated flip-signs, flashers (side, back and top) and drop-arms to alert drivers that somebody may be crossing the street. That's how you deal with safety - address the real issues.

Little circles are typically installed to force cars to reduce their speed through areas. That's why they stick them in the middle of the road, because you can't just fly straight through. The idea is if you force traffic to slow down it makes things safer for pedestrians and cyclists. The approach is actually a lot closer to the 'signs and lights' approach on school busses, than fines. But with either you assume that drivers will actually follow them. Signs and lights on busses don't mean a thing if drivers don't stop for them. Sort of like how traffic circles don't do a thing if people don't slow down when going through them or don't yield to other traffic, pedestrians, etc.

The issue is education. The issue is not that everybody is intent to "fly through them". That's more in keeping with the "idiot Winnipeg drivers" fable that people - for some reason - like to flog.

"But in reality if you're driving at night on a road you don't know well you have to be cautious."

like I said.. technically your fault sure... but in reality they need to design the road better

grumpy old man wrote:I don't believe you've driven through those circles. Maybe through one or two, from one direction. You and sputnik should drive both ways at 8 am or 5 pm. Tell me then what you think.

Is that because people use Grovener as a shortcut versus Corydon faster flow and now they have been slowed down , and grumpy I lived in this area so please do not accuse me of not being familiar with it. I have driven Grovener more then you might know .

Sorry if I got the the street wrong in my spelling

If you talk the Lanark intersection you would have to be preety drunk to hit this thing it is a level road .