Drunks Force Downtown Winnipeg Business to Close

DowntownBIZ wrote:

grumpy old man wrote:It's a very real perception DowntownBIZ. We may hate to see it, and MAYBE it's unfair, but it cannot be denied that many people believe it.

I know you peeps are working hard to overcome the perception but much much work still needs to be done.

I agree.
There is always work to be done. There always will be. Social issues, bad planning, and bad political decisions cannot be corrected that easily. We have more then our fair share of this, even currently, unfortunately.
But you know what? I had a great time tonight, downtown. The play was awesome and Earls was packed. People were having fun on a great summers night, downtown. I am sure many people felt the same way. There is much good and vibrancy happening downtown. No one should take this fact away from our downtown.
This does not mean anyone should be satisfied with our downtown. There has been much progress, but yes, much more is needed.
Tonight the BIZ with the support of the police also had to deal with a dozen intoxicated people. People with no hope, causing problems.
The BIZ will be the first to promote the downtown, but we are also out there on the front lines dealing with most of the issues. And we also champion for progress, as much as we can.
The publics voice needs to be fair, but also much louder when expressing a desire for quicker progress.
We hear you.

What more is needed?

Are you in discussion with the Aboriginal community to address the social issues you refer to?

As a consumer, given a choice of spending my money for food, goods and entertainment where I am accosted by beggars, sujbected to filth, witness to social ills vs not, where to you think I'm going? I won't be guilted into going downtown because thats a solution to a problem that I didn't create.

Downtownbiz.

Just how much of your promotional budget is given over to purchasing lipstick for this pig. Seriously.

Portage Avenue is now our slum area and all your little red shirted wannabee cops are only chasing their tails.

I haven't heard one single idea come from you for fixing up our slop pit. How about it?

The Aboriginal issue is a really tough one to deal with. Many of them probably don't give a rats ass on the effect they are having in the place they live because that is how they have lived their entire lives. They have never felt the need to get help for their addictions because no one has ever encouraged them to better themselves. They just rely on the cheques in the mail, nothing more.

It's hard to keep the rif raff from moving into the city, they just keep coming and coming and coming and coming. And the more of them that come, the worse this issue will become, and the more cities like Winnipeg (among others) will degenerate. I feel that the issue hinges mainly on their own attitude. They are individuals that make decisions for themselves. They have the power to want to change their lives for the better and get off the streets. But I just don't see that happening. They seem content to soak in their own filth, and in effect, help to degenerate areas where they are found in larger numbers, like the downtown, helping to drive off other citizens.

If you cut their money (welfare) off thinking it would force them to "heal" themselves, then what would happen? Likely crime rates would go up since they would be forced to steal for themselves just to stay alive. Race riots would break out on the streets throughout the city because you would get a backlash of those saying it's unfair to target one single race. IMHO, you need to sit down with each and every one of these troubled aboriginals and have a one on one talk with them, asking (and evaluating) them on what their problems are and what needs to be done to improve their lives and get them off the streets; that is if they are even willing to talk to anyone. But I just don't see something like this hapenning.

So what is the answer? How do you deal with the influx of "challenged" aborigional flooding into cities like Winnipeg, essentially destroying areas like the downtown, north end and west end? Do you pick and choose who can move into a city like a dictoralship? That likely won't fly in this country. To my understanding, this "problem" has now spread into areas like Elmwood, the Kildonans andThe Maples, where crime is increasing and coincidentally so is the aboriginal population.

Like I said before; if you deal with aboriginals (and we are still figuring out how to do so), then you deal with the majority of the crime issues. But the question remains: how?

Freeman wrote:

DowntownBIZ wrote:

grumpy old man wrote:It's a very real perception DowntownBIZ. We may hate to see it, and MAYBE it's unfair, but it cannot be denied that many people believe it.

I know you peeps are working hard to overcome the perception but much much work still needs to be done.

I agree.
There is always work to be done. There always will be. Social issues, bad planning, and bad political decisions cannot be corrected that easily. We have more then our fair share of this, even currently, unfortunately.
But you know what? I had a great time tonight, downtown. The play was awesome and Earls was packed. People were having fun on a great summers night, downtown. I am sure many people felt the same way. There is much good and vibrancy happening downtown. No one should take this fact away from our downtown.
This does not mean anyone should be satisfied with our downtown. There has been much progress, but yes, much more is needed.
Tonight the BIZ with the support of the police also had to deal with a dozen intoxicated people. People with no hope, causing problems.
The BIZ will be the first to promote the downtown, but we are also out there on the front lines dealing with most of the issues. And we also champion for progress, as much as we can.
The publics voice needs to be fair, but also much louder when expressing a desire for quicker progress.
We hear you.

What more is needed?

Are you in discussion with the Aboriginal community to address the social issues you refer to?

As a consumer, given a choice of spending my money for food, goods and entertainment where I am accosted by beggars, sujbected to filth, witness to social ills vs not, where to you think I'm going? I won't be guilted into going downtown because thats a solution to a problem that I didn't create.

We all did when we left downtown for the suburban malls and the poor people took over the downtown and their not all aboriginal some are white just like you .

Gee Pav how do you know what colour freeman's skin is? Have you met him?

The Aboriginal issue is a really tough one to deal with. Many of them probably don't give a rats ass on the effect they are having in the place they live because that is how they have lived their entire lives. They have never felt the need to get help for their addictions because no one has ever encouraged them to better themselves. They just rely on the cheques in the mail, nothing more.

And of course we gave them an equal chance as you and I had right , righttttttt.

Goth_chic wrote:Gee Pav how do you know what colour freeman's skin is? Have you met him?

Just a figure of speech he gets the point hopefully , it is not to hard to see. Even if he is colored he should get the point.

Man Pav. Why do you constantly keep apologizing for bad behaviour?

When will you finally realize that every person is responsible for their own lives?

Pavolo wrote:We all did when we left downtown for the suburban malls and the poor people took over the downtown and their not all aboriginal some are white just like you .

I lived downtown for 2 years in 76-78 and I worked around Portage and Memorial until about 81 and then at Trize until 87, and downtown sure isn't what it used to be. There were a few beggars, but nothing to the extent it is now. And living and working downtown meant we did a lot of shopping in the area (Eatons, the Bay) and frequented the restaurants and bars around and there was no problem being there during the evening and weekends. My wife even commented that she would not have ventured downtown yesterday on her own. And the reality of the situation is that most of the "social issues" involve aboriginals, so lets not hide behind political correctness.

The attitude that Pav has is precisely why the problem has got to where it is. Look at whats going on, call it and deal with it. If you're waist deep in in, calling it something other than sh1t doesn't solve the problem.

So what is the answer? How do you deal with the influx of "challenged" aboriginal flooding into cities like Winnipeg, essentially destroying areas like the downtown


It is all their fault now is it . Spoken like a true Winnipeger blame everyone but moi . It is everyone's fault we've stopped going there long ago and values there went down hill . The poor could afford to live there where they could not 5 yrs before.
Meanwhile we got free parking at the MALL in Suburbia.

JTF wrote:Man Pav. Why do you constantly keep apologizing for bad behaviour?

When will you finally realize that every person is responsible for their own lives?

Then why did we put the Indian act into existence to run theres.

Pav, did you not read my comment that I will not be guilted into solving a problem that I didn't create?

You keep promoting your treaties and the Indian Act, see how well thats working for us. I guess it works ok for you seeing as you get a paycheque out of it.

Here is what I see you doing pavola: shitting on people speaking their minds about the state of our downtown. You further rag on them for not providing solutions.

In each of your posts you forgive the bahaviours of those creating the problems yet nowhere in any of your posts do you provide solutions.

Where do you get off with your indignation?

Pavolo wrote:So what is the answer? How do you deal with the influx of "challenged" aboriginal flooding into cities like Winnipeg, essentially destroying areas like the downtown


It is all their fault now is it . Spoken like a true Winnipeger blame everyone but moi . It is everyone's fault we've stopped going there long ago and values there went down hill . The poor could afford to live there where they could not 5 yrs before.
Meanwhile we got free parking at the MALL in Suburbia.

Why should I have to deal with it? I work, I pay my taxes, I volunteer massively in my community, I vote, isn't that enough?

Sorry Pav. It's YOUR fault....not mine.

Pavolo wrote:

JTF wrote:Man Pav. Why do you constantly keep apologizing for bad behaviour?

When will you finally realize that every person is responsible for their own lives?

Then why did we put the Indian act into existence to run theres.

For the record I hit thanks in error...

You imply there is an Indian act that is getting in the way of the Indians running their own lives. May I ask one simple question:

When off reserve are Indians controlled by the Indian act? Are Indians in the city completely free to do anything they want without any interference?

You know, like get a job. Unemployment rates in Manitoba have been amoung the lowest, if not the lowest, in Canada for 2-3 years now...

Pavolo wrote:So what is the answer? How do you deal with the influx of "challenged" aboriginal flooding into cities like Winnipeg, essentially destroying areas like the downtown


It is all their fault now is it . Spoken like a true Winnipeger blame everyone but moi . It is everyone's fault we've stopped going there long ago and values there went down hill . The poor could afford to live there where they could not 5 yrs before.
Meanwhile we got free parking at the MALL in Suburbia.

For the most part, yes, it is their fault. If they live their lives on reserves as druggies, alcoholics, criminals, etc. who are you going to blame for that. Me? Then I would tell you to F OFF because I have nothing to do with that aspect of someones personal life. If they bring their messed up lives down to where I live, how is that my fault? They have FREE WILL to choose, do they not? Are you saying that aboriginals are not intelligent enough to make the right decisions when it comes to leading their own lives? Are you saying that it's my fault if they choose not to get an education but rather join a gang? Are you saying that it's my fault if they choose the easy way out in life?
Pav, the majority of crime issues in the Prairies are caused by aboriginals, whether you want to accept this or not. Just look at the jails. Vast majority of prisonners are aboriginal. My cousin works as a correctional officer in Brandon, and he can vouch for what I say anyday. It's no lie Pav. As the aboriginal population is one of the fastest growing in Canada, particulary Manitoba, there is a more than decent chance that the crime rates in the Prairie will continue to soar high. Hence that is why there is a need to deal with the aboriginal issue first and foremost if we want to reduce the crime rates in cities like Winnipeg. THEN you can deal with all the rest.

I give up you people are too narrow minded to see the it that we are all part of the problem .

I predicted exactly that move pavola. You never even tried.

Pavolo wrote:I give up you people are too narrow minded to see the it that we are all part of the problem .

Please enlighten me, how exactly am I part of this problem?

Don't bother goth. Pavola is only capable of posting snarky shots at people or posting incomprehensible long-winded cut and pastes from obscure websites. An actual discussion where he genuinely tries to inform and educate is not part of his MO.

Pavolo wrote:I give up you people are too narrow minded to see the it that we are all part of the problem .

No, you're wrong, you're the narrow minded one, because you refuse to see any other view than your own. Take the time to read others posts and understand.

And other than annoying the crap out of the rest of us, what are you doing to solve the problem? Get paid for writing another article?

EdWin wrote:Like I said before; if you deal with aboriginals (and we are still figuring out how to do so), then you deal with the majority of the crime issues. But the question remains: how?

Have a bunch of visibly Aboriginal people in red suits and police uniforms patrol the downtown area. This will ensure perceptions of Aboriginals are healed a little bit as well as give the other Aboriginals positive role models to look up to.

Red suits and the WPS are a large part of the problem if this isn't met.

I've seen my first visibly Aboriginal WPS member recently and I was very happy about this.

The only way you'll see more Aboriginals cops is if more Aboriginals apply to become officers. If they don't apply then you won't see more.

About 330/2780 (12%) of applicants are aboriginal according to this report. I believe I've showed this to you twice before, hun.

http://winnipeg.ca/police/PDFs/Winnipeg_Police_Service_CALEA_Report.pdf