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POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project?

+18
Mantha
Triniman
freepressreader
wpg_idiot
AGEsAces
umcrouc0
LivingDead
holly golightly
Outsider
Northlands
death128
Electrician
rosencrentz
Jondo
Bartron
EdWin
grumpy old man
Deank
22 posters

Go to page : Previous  1 ... 8 ... 13, 14, 15 ... 20 ... 27  Next

Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project?

POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project? - Page 14 Vote_lcap15%POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project? - Page 14 Vote_rcap 15% [ 4 ]
POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project? - Page 14 Vote_lcap65%POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project? - Page 14 Vote_rcap 65% [ 17 ]
POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project? - Page 14 Vote_lcap19%POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project? - Page 14 Vote_rcap 19% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 26


Go down  Message [Page 14 of 27]

Electrician


general-contributor
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Seems more like the other way around...
EVERYONE will be able to use the facility 24/7, since it'll be made with taxpayer money...
Problem is, by that time, the team will probably already have been sold and transferred to another city...


We can always make it into the biggest KARAOKE facility in the world...

http://www.new.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1416203996

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
uber-contributor
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Why would local "cheapskates" care if some local taxpayer money is used?
If we didn't have this "cheapscate" mentality, then back a few years ago, when the Jets were sold off for $85 million, any local group could have purchased it for $50 million. and it would be worth close to $200 million a profit of 400%.
Using "local" taxpayer money would have been a smart thing!
Local=stupid, doesn't allways equate, or does it?

http://www.elansofas.com

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

rosencrentz wrote:Why would local "cheapskates" care if some local taxpayer money is used?
If we didn't have this "cheapscate" mentality, then back a few years ago, when the Jets were sold off for $85 million, any local group could have purchased it for $50 million. and it would be worth close to $200 million a profit of 400%.
Using "local" taxpayer money would have been a smart thing!
Local=stupid, doesn't allways equate, or does it?

Rosen, I thought you were a businessman.
A NHL team is worth $400 million only in a city which has a lot of high-paying jobs. Also the people who have these high-paying jobs must be hockey fans who are willing to pay for the mostly over-priced tickets for every game as well as souvenirs, etc.
Having heavy media coverage is also a necessity.
Toronto qualifies because of the jobs and the media coverage.
It also helps if the government is not the biggest employer in town.
Winnipeg does not have the high-paying jobs or the media coverage.
Some people on this forum have said a NHL team in Winnipeg is a break-even proposition at best.
I think NHL salaries are going to have to come down a long way before it is a break-even proposition on a consistent basis.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

I think you're wrong. On almost every bullet.

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

grumpy old man wrote:I think you're wrong. On almost every bullet.
So where am I wrong?
For example how many sellouts have the Bombers had in the last 10 years?
If the government isn't biggest employer in town, it certainly can't be far behind.
Chicago won the Stanley Cup this spring. And the first thing they had to do was "dump salary" because they were at or over the player salary cap (Which was about $58 million/year)

I know you and I have done this dance before.
But I feel too many citizens of Winnipeg have champagne tastes with a beer budget.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Where are you right? Seriously. If that's just an opinion I can accept that but...

It's fine to say "Having heavy media coverage is also a necessity." but shouldn't there be some back up or a simple explanation why heavy media is crucial to the success of an NHL team.

Let's assume government is the biggest employer in Winnipeg. They probably are. How is that an impediment to the success of an NHL team? FWIW, do you know Winnipeg has more head offices than Edmonton and Ottawa? Who do ya suppose the biggest employers in those cities are?

How will the success of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers impact an NHL team? It is related but not the same. Let's use the same logic here: name one of the most successful arenas in North America? Does not the very success of the MTS Centre not mean that an NHL team is viable?

I am one of those peeps that has suggested an NHL team will break even in the current City of Winnipeg, given good management and a little good luck. 2011 Winnipeg is not 1995 Winnipeg. Not by a long shot.



Last edited by grumpy old man on Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Top employers in Edmonton
1 Capital Health
2 Government of Alberta
3 City of Edmonton
4 Edmonton Public Schools
5 University of Alberta
6 Government of Canada

http://www.searchlocally.com/Edmonton/HR/Jobs-Employers.htm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

20,652 Companies in Winnipeg
29,027 Companies in Edmonton
41,248 Companies in Calgary
16,921 Companies in Ottawa

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

Outsider- you have hit the numbers dead-on, in tat an NHL franchise is worth $400 million in a city with high paying jobs, hence, 50% off for Winnipeg= $200, and we are the cheapscate City! lol
The problem, if there is one is having to charge $80 for a seat, when we get a $35 performance from the over paid athletes.
It is their $3,000,000 salaries that are the problem, and because there is no solution to the highest bidder screwing up the system, we cannot support an NHL team.
That is why Shenkerow and the other owners bailed out. The salary was around $16 million at that time,there was an arena that had 13,500 on average, the concession income and the parking income did not go to the team.
I think tickets were around $45 for a fairly good seat ?

http://www.elansofas.com

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

NEW YORK -- The average value of NHL teams has increased, although the overall numbers mask struggles for many teams.

Forbes magazine's annual report released Wednesday found that the average franchise was worth US$228 million, up two per cent from last year. But nearly half of the league's teams -- 14 of 30 -- saw their values decline.

The Toronto Maple Leafs remain No. 1 at US$505 million.

The changes in value highlight the gap between the haves and have-nots. Large-market franchises such as the New York Rangers ($461M), Montreal Canadiens ($408M), Boston Bruins ($302M), Philadelphia Flyers ($302M), Chicago Blackhawks ($300M) and Vancouver Canucks ($262M) had their values increase by double-digit percentage points.

The Rangers, Canadiens, Detroit Red Wings ($315M) and Bruins round out the top five.

The Calgary Flames ($206M) were ranked 13th, the Ottawa Senators ($196M) were 17th, and the Edmonton Oilers ($183M) were 20th.

Tampa Bay just changed hands for $99 million.

Guest

Anonymous
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Why we talking hockey on a football stadium thread. Can you boys get your act together and go play somewhere else ? POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project? - Page 14 741416

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

rosencrentz wrote:Why would local "cheapskates" care if some local taxpayer money is used?
If we didn't have this "cheapscate" mentality, then back a few years ago, when the Jets were sold off for $85 million, any local group could have purchased it for $50 million. and it would be worth close to $200 million a profit of 400%.
Using "local" taxpayer money would have been a smart thing!
Local=stupid, doesn't allways equate, or does it?

To bad the city was not willing to give up control of the arena

Electrician

Electrician
general-contributor
general-contributor

Heh. Same thing happened here in Trieste, years ago...
The then professional basketball team owner wanted to build a new arena for his team (with his own money) and the locals wouldn't give him a building permit.
So, he moved the team to Milan, and won the Italian championship the next season.
The city later built their own new arena, and they now have a team which has been sitting in third or fourth division since...
This city's famous quote started back then: "No se pol" which means "we can't" in local dialect.

http://www.new.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1416203996

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
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New Figures Just In:
30,000 attendence is 3% of the Provincial Population.
Even less than 3% go to the subsidized Manitoba Theatre Centre, therefore some of our tax money should go to this sports complex, especially if there are side benefits to the University, which is almost totally funded by the Province.

http://www.elansofas.com

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Stadium deal details Friday

Great day, Blue chairman predicts

By PAUL FRIESEN and ROSS ROMANIUK, Winnipeg Sun

The details of a reorganized deal on how a new football stadium being built for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers will be financed has been tentatively scheduled for Friday.

Bill Watchorn, chairman of the franchise’s board of directors, confirmed the news Wednesday night.

“It’s (going to be) a great news day,” Watchorn said.

The news came just hours after Mayor Sam Katz sounded the alarm that time was running out to put the much-maligned deal together. Katz said earlier in the day he wanted a firm plan to put before city council at its Dec. 15 meeting.

The mayor said he was continuing to try to secure a “guaranteed maximum price” for the project, whose construction cost is speculated to have risen to about $200 million or more — up considerably from the $115-million pricetag given last spring — for a 33,000-seat CFL stadium at the University of Manitoba.

“Time is of the essence, and we’re running out of time,” Katz said. “If you can’t get to a guaranteed maximum price today, are you going to get to one tomorrow? Maybe,” Katz said.

“That’s one of the key concerns, and that has to be accomplished. As you and I are speaking right now, we’re not there. That doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen by this evening or tomorrow. That certainly is possible.”

Prior to Watchorn spilling the beans, Premier Greg Selinger said he was hopeful the agreement would be complete before Christmas.

“That’s the plan. Everybody wants to do that. We think there’s been a lot of good work done by everybody to get it done by that stage,” he said. “We’d like to bring it forward and get it decided by Christmas.”

The original deal fell apart when construction costs skyrocketed and David Asper’s Creswin Properties — which spearheaded the original deal — struggled to find interest for its proposed pedestrian mall at the current Polo Park stadium site, then balked at paying the cost overruns as originally promised.

Neither Watchorn nor Katz would say whether Creswin is still involved in the project, with the mayor only saying the company remains involved until it’s decided otherwise.

It has been widely speculated the province — which originally gave Asper a loan to finance construction — will now pay the lion’s share of costs, with the Bombers playing a more prominent role in bankrolling the new stadium, which is under construction.

“(The province) has to feel comfortable. And the city. It really will address the project cost, the project management and, most likely, financing,” said Watchorn, of the new deal.

“Whatever we do will protect the integrity and guarantee the integrity of the Bombers.”

— With files from Paul Turenne

wpgsun.citydesk@sunmedia.ca

Triniman

Triniman
general-contributor
general-contributor

Selinger's fortunes are tied to this deal. That's how the public will see things, anyway.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

I like how they are saying.. details will be out. Well.. it does actually still have to go to council. Its not like the province where the premier can just say whatever he wants and no vote involved.

USApegger

USApegger
contributor
contributor

This morning they were discussing a user fee to be added to the cost of tickets similar to what Sask does

Outsider

Outsider
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I wonder how the Blue are going to come up with $70 Million??
The other new component of the proposed deal will see the Winnipeg Blue Bombers on the hook for at least $70 million of the stadium construction.

from:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/mobile/stadium-players-converge-on-cost-111584344.html

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Hold a lottery for one of the suites.

$100 per ticket.

You get the suite for 25 years
bunch of secondary prizes of two seats for 25 years at various places in the stadium
like the best two seats in each section of the new stadium.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

That's a good idea Deank. There are other creative ways to raise money too. User fees are one. That said, if the Bombers had been properly managed they'd have been collecting a user fee for several years and MAYBE there would be a kitty of sorts to draw on...

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

700K tickets would not be that hard of a sell at a mere $100 each me thinks.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

How many tickets are sold for the HSC Lotteries? Would this be as attractive a draw?

USApegger

USApegger
contributor
contributor

I like this idea too, perhaps if it sells quickly they could do two boxes as the ST base is at least 18k
I am all for paying user fees too

USApegger

USApegger
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contributor

grumpy old man wrote:How many tickets are sold for the HSC Lotteries? Would this be as attractive a draw?
For a football fan it sure would, plus you would get the concerts etc. Maybe 25 years is too long, perhaps 10 and they could do it every ten years, even 5 years would be great

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Sask used to run a successful lottery. Do they still?

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