ground breaking ceremonies... should they maybe break ground?

I didn't respect Asper when he was alive and I'm not going to pretend that I do/did now that he's dead.

And frankly, using the arguement that he's dead to disallow comment is not going to presuade me to buy into the bullshit surrounding this monument.

Who is disallowing comment? Your disrespect is very evident. And I don't suggest you pretend to do anything. I would not presume to do that. Too bad you feel this way. Says something about character.

grumpy old man wrote:Who is disallowing comment? Your disrespect is very evident. And I don't suggest you pretend to do anything. I would not presume to do that. Too bad you feel this way. Says something about character.

Wanting the taxpayer to fund a Holocaust-only museum also says something about character, no?

It does? Seriously? Holy Moley... Is this the reason for the venom? A Jew initially wanting to create an edifice to remember the holocaust? Is a Jew creating a monument to the holocaust indicative of a character flaw?

I'd say alluding to that is also a character flaw.

grumpy old man wrote:It does? Seriously? Holy Moley... Is this the reason for the venom? A Jew initially wanting to create an edifice to remember the holocaust? Is a Jew creating a monument to the holocaust indicative of a character flaw?

I'd say alluding to that is also a character flaw.

Wanting to exclude the genocides that other cultures have experienced says something about character.

In the end, he was WRONG and admitted it by saving face with an inclusive museum project.

Is there anything on earth that could cause Izzy to back down? Yeah, admitting to himself that Canada doesn't need to fund another Holocaust-only project.

If he felt otherwise, we'd be opening a Holocaust-only museum in 2012.

Ahhh...rewriting a bit of history there methinks GOM....I recall Asper wanting to build a legacy...the Lyric didn't take enough taxpayer cash to make a big enough deal....so he went with a Holocaust Memorial...and that didn't pan out.... then he died.

And speaking of character...I don't think you want to get into a pissing contest regarding Izzy's character if you know anything about the man....

I am not defending Asper. Nor am I rewriting anything. Hell I've no friggen idea what you are talking about.

Maybe his original concept was for a holocaust museum. So what? Not wanting other genocides displayed and discussed in *his* museum might not be the wisest decision he ever made. But cause to shower him with such disdain? Never.

grumpy old man wrote:I am not defending Asper. Nor am I rewriting anything. Hell I've no friggen idea what you are talking about.

Maybe his original concept was for a holocaust museum. So what? Not wanting other genocides displayed and discussed in *his* museum might not be the wisest decision he ever made. But cause to shower him with such disdain? Never.

So long as tax dollars were involved, it was never his museum.

He should have known better. Only someone teeming with arrogance would have considered and promoted such a concept.

Apart from that misstep, he never asked the public if they wanted to fund the museum. Again, you'd have to be extremely arrogant to not want to ask the taxpayer to support the project.

I don't get it. I really don't. Never have I been so flummoxed with regard for the utter contempt shown for this one individual.

You've never had an idea you've advanced at work? Maybe the idea has merit on its own. Maybe it morphs into something else. I'd doubt you'd be labeled for your original idea as arrogant.

I'm baffled...

grumpy old man wrote:I don't get it. I really don't. Never have I been so flummoxed with regard for the utter contempt shown for this one individual.

You've never had an idea you've advanced at work? Maybe the idea has merit on its own. Maybe it morphs into something else. I'd doubt you'd be labeled for your original idea as arrogant.

I'm baffled...

Sometimes, powerful business people are just arrogant SOBs. And sometimes, they get found out and their image is forever tarnished. Life goes on. When you can't relate to the average guy due to your immense wealth and power, the concept creating a white elephant doesn't matter to you. You see yourself as a hero for putting in the seed money. And it doesn't matter to you that the expenses will be paid off by the taxpayer's children's children.

I say it is morally wrong to add unnecessary expenses for our children's children to pay off. Socialists like Doer, on the other hand, only think in terms of the here and now and what can they spend to stay in power.

Want more proof that their fundraising has stalled?

There is a small article in the Freep today indicating that the public has up the end of Dec. to take advantage of Arni's promise to match new donations dollar for dollar, up to $800,000. Now, why do you suppose they are not crowing about how much money has been donated since Arni's offer first appeared? I suspect it's because they have barely raised any money at all and thus have virtually nothing to boast about.

Fundraising is in trouble. People are saing NO with their wallets.

let's see the business plan.
This is proving to me there are more bs stories out there by people who really have no Idea of what they talk about, probaly cause they really are not in the know
Thank you very much Izzy Asker. Fcuk you and your legacy.

This proves to me that some have no idea who moved this city and who did not . Suggest you need to get over it JTF

Hey pavolo..

If using the quote feature is sometimes hard ( and I know it is when you only want to quote a piece or two of someone elses stuff).... can you put quotes around the qouted stuff?

ie "This proves to me that some have no idea who moved this city and who did not . "

If you could that would make it alot easier to sort out some of the posts... if not... whichever .. just a suggestion/question is all.. I will still read your stuff even if you dont

grumpy old man wrote:It does? Seriously? Holy Moley... Is this the reason for the venom? A Jew initially wanting to create an edifice to remember the holocaust? Is a Jew creating a monument to the holocaust indicative of a character flaw?

I'd say alluding to that is also a character flaw.

Izzy spent alot of his own money flying a certain group of kids to far flung corners of the world to educate them about the holocuast. Izzy figured gee this is crazy.. why am I flying them outside of Canada for this. I should be able to do this in Canada. So he formulated the plan to build a holocaust only museum in Canada... (and of course why not his own town, it only makes sense).....Any problem with any of that? frick NO!..... the problem comes when Aspers starts going after public money in a HUGE way and only when their is luke warm reception to the idea is the idea of an inclusive museum instead of exclusive museum floated.


You tell me what that says about someones character when they only think about the other attrocities of the world because the money is involved.

Leipsic

Good to see alot of Wpg Companies will benifet from this as I have heard of two in the running for peices and complete construction jobs on it . There are more Iam sure .

Sorry Dean but it looked good in Preveiw but it did not come out that way when I posted was unsure of how to correct it , think I have a format issue. As spacing is sometimes not right and I have to tab twice to get spaces to show up.

while we are on the topic of Holocaust memorials, why on earth is there that concrete wall memorial for Holocaust victims on Legislative Grounds? Sure the Holocaust was a great tragedy, but what on earth does it have to do with Manitoba?

The holocaust has to do with every human being.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

After all Our Mayors parents died in it , along with many other Manitobans parents and aunt uncles, you name it .

Some good comments here. Hopefully, some of these people will join this forum. Good job marketing.

http://blog.canoe.ca/raisinghell/2008/12/19/human_rights_museum_nice_but_pricey#comments

I liked this comment,

"There is a very long list of needs and it's outrageous to even be
talking of funding museums and stadiums. The priority needs list
includes decaying cities infrastructure, roads and highways (especially
widening #1, 50 MRI machines, more doctors - and the list goes on. It
maddens me when we're told we can't afford these needs and then we hear
about 100's of millions for other non-necessities like the two at
issue."

grumpy old man wrote:The holocaust has to do with every human being.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

So why don't we have a memorial to the Rwandan Tutsis who suffered casualties of 800,000 during an extermination attempt by the Hutu tribe?
Why don't we have an Armenian Memorial at the legislative grounds. Millions of them were massacred in world war 1 by the Turks.
Why don't we have a Memorial to the Ukranians who were systematically starved to death under the Stalin regeime? After all, there are more people with Ukranian heritage in Manitoba than of a Jewish background.

The list goes on and on. The bottom line is one thing....money. Jews have money, and tons of political influence. That's why their suffering is "important", while virtually all other ethnic groups that have had a similiar fate imposed on them at some point in history are largely ignored or dismissed.

Pavolo wrote:After all Our Mayors parents died in it , along with many other Manitobans parents and aunt uncles, you name it .

Which group are you referring to? Stephen Juba's parents probably suffered through the Ukranian Genocide..

HurtinAlbertan wrote:So why don't we have a memorial to the Rwandan Tutsis who suffered casualties of 800,000 during an extermination attempt by the Hutu tribe? Why don't we have an Armenian Memorial at the legislative grounds. Millions of them were massacred in world war 1 by the Turks. Why don't we have a Memorial to the Ukranians who were systematically starved to death under the Stalin regeime? After all, there are more people with Ukranian heritage in Manitoba than of a Jewish background.

The list goes on and on. The bottom line is one thing....money. Jews have money, and tons of political influence. That's why their suffering is "important", while virtually all other ethnic groups that have had a similiar fate imposed on them at some point in history are largely ignored or dismissed.

No, that is what the CHRM is all about. Look, it angers me when people say this is all about "The Jews and their money". Give that a rest sport. All these atrocities need to be remembered. If the Holocaust seems to get more "air time" so what?

Whatever Asper's motive for the museum it has morphed into something bigger.

Triniman wrote:Some good comments here. Hopefully, some of these people will join this forum. Good job marketing.

http://blog.canoe.ca/raisinghell/2008/12/19/human_rights_museum_nice_but_pricey#comments

I liked this comment,

"There is a very long list of needs and it's outrageous to even be
talking of funding museums and stadiums. The priority needs list
includes decaying cities infrastructure, roads and highways (especially widening #1, 50 MRI machines, more doctors - and the list goes on. It maddens me when we're told we can't afford these needs and then we hear about 100's of millions for other non-necessities like the two at
issue."

That comment was made by a new member to this forum, and a friend of mine. We disagree but keep it respectful without the baiting.

grumpy old man wrote:

HurtinAlbertan wrote:So why don't we have a memorial to the Rwandan Tutsis who suffered casualties of 800,000 during an extermination attempt by the Hutu tribe? Why don't we have an Armenian Memorial at the legislative grounds. Millions of them were massacred in world war 1 by the Turks. Why don't we have a Memorial to the Ukranians who were systematically starved to death under the Stalin regeime? After all, there are more people with Ukranian heritage in Manitoba than of a Jewish background.

The list goes on and on. The bottom line is one thing....money. Jews have money, and tons of political influence. That's why their suffering is "important", while virtually all other ethnic groups that have had a similiar fate imposed on them at some point in history are largely ignored or dismissed.

No, that is what the CHRM is all about. Look, it angers me when people say this is all about "The Jews and their money". Give that a rest sport. All these atrocities need to be remembered. If the Holocaust seems to get more "air time" so what?

Whatever Asper's motive for the museum it has morphed into something bigger.

You cannot deny that Jews have a disproportionate influence on North American media than virtually any other ethnic or religious group.

I don't deny it. But so what? Why do you care how they spend their money and influence? If you were part of that genocide you might feel it is a little more important to you as well. Jews are also disproportionately represented in the medical community. And in the comedy community. Again so what?

Before you take this any further explain what is WRONG with it. Else you sound racist.

Since Winnipeg has a huge ethnic Ukrainan population, I would just like to educate some forum members who may not be familiar with the plight of the Ukranians prior to WW2:

Starting from the late 1920s, Ukraine was involved in the Soviet industrialisation and the republic's industrial output quadrupled in the 1930s. However, the industrialisation had a heavy cost for the peasantry, demographically a backbone of the Ukrainian nation. To satisfy the state's need for increased food supplies and to finance industrialisation, Stalin instituted a program of collectivisation of agriculture as the state combined the peasants' lands and animals into collective farms and enforcing the policies by the regular troops and secret police. Those who resisted were arrested and deported and the increased production quotas were placed on the peasantry. The collectivisation had a devastating effect on agricultural productivity. As the members of the collective farms were not allowed to receive any grain until the unachievable quotas were met, starvation in the Soviet Union became widespread. In 1932–33, millions starved to death in a man-made famine known as Holodomor. Scholars are divided as to whether this famine fits the definition of genocide, but the Ukrainian parliament and more than a dozen other countries recognise it as the genocide of the Ukrainian people.
The times of industrialisation and Holodomor also coincided with the Soviet assault on the national political and cultural elite often accused in "nationalist deviations". Two waves of Stalinist political repression and persecution in the Soviet Union (1929–34 and 1936–38) resulted in the killing of some 681,692 people; this included four-fifths of the Ukrainian cultural elite and three quarters of all the Red Army's higher-ranking officers.