ground breaking ceremonies... should they maybe break ground?

Deank wrote:"Is it possible there were escalation costs built into the price?"
no.
No large project in North America properly predicted the enormous cost increase in construction that we have had. The only possible thing to make this come in more on target is the enormous downturn in the economy. ( and that just gets way to many conspiracy theories going for me to even want to consider )

Hey, never said they did predict the huge increases. But I will bet they had escalation prices built in. Gotta take a pill Deank. Your head is gonna 'splode.

GOM the problem is that they will not own up to it and will not show where the downfall is. Its for a simple reason to.

The government said. Until the funds are raised our portion is not coming. And based on cost escalation they would have never raised the funds. Ever.
So what to do? Why I know.. dont update the projected cost until AFTER you have met the original target... Government money flows... and we all know that for projects such as this, especially when threatened by not being able to complete it... more private money will flow once its actually started as well.

They could just admit to all of this... but are choosing not to.

grumpy old man wrote:I understood the plans and specifications have been issued and the project is out for tender (or will shortly go out for tender). Just because John Q Public has not seen a plan don't assume one does not exist.

Youse guys are looking for demons in every closet.

If John Q Public has not seen the business plan, it is because they are deliberately withholding it from us.

Maybe. Maybe not. You don't trust our elected officials to practise due diligence? heh heh

grumpy old man wrote:Maybe. Maybe not. You don't trust our elected officials to practise due diligence? heh heh

most times yes... in the case of this steamroller building .. no.

The plans are out for the people who matter and the bussiness plan was released when the fund raising started for the people who put up money. Dean you would know if you were some what in the know , think izzy was dumb enough to go hat in hand with no plan .

O and another common mistake the fund to bring in the students is a fund started by Izzy with 8 mill of his own money held in trust the intrest will cover this plan . Just heard that from the people who are more in the know then you or I they have put up money . This will also fund scholerships . Suggest you learn before you cry Dean as you realy don,t know this project at all .

Pavolo pavolo pavolo.. what makes you think I dont know those things?
The construction plan wont be released to the public because it has fatal flaws and is no longer relevant in the current construction climate.
The Business plan requires 22 million a year in funding from the government with very little actually being charged for admission.
No Izzy's money will NOT cover all the travel expenses. Thats why a further 22 mill per year is needed.
I know about the scholarships as well. ( one of the reason I suggested it should actually be built closer to the University )

What makes you think I dont have all the information I need Pavolo? I have more then most. Because I ask questions and actually get answers sometimes. Unfortunately the one answer I need right now.. they refuse to answer... How can construction costs be the same?

Pavolo wrote:The plans are out for the people who matter and the bussiness plan was released when the fund raising started for the people who put up money. Dean you would know if you were some what in the know , think izzy was dumb enough to go hat in hand with no plan .

O and another common mistake the fund to bring in the students is a fund started by Izzy with 8 mill of his own money held in trust the intrest will cover this plan . Just heard that from the people who are more in the know then you or I they have put up money . This will also fund scholerships . Suggest you learn before you cry Dean as you realy don,t know this project at all .

How is the general public supposed to know this if it isn't disclosed to the public? Just publishing it on their website would work. Fair solution?

the information has all been available in bits and pieces. But still does not add up to something good.

KTK basis for now. Remember the goverment owes you not the Freinds of the museum as they are not taking your money from you the goverment is.

meh.. tomato potato

Yes but it is the way it is give 100 thou you get the plan .

Oh pulese... KTK Basis. Get real. This is a 50~/50~ initiative: 50% government/50% public donations. There needs to be full transparency and disclosure.

Pavolo wrote:Yes but it is the way it is give 100 thou you get the plan .

Pavolo... again... what makes you think that I dont have the plan? Trust me when I tell you they have not been forthcoming to anyone as to how they are explaining the fact that this is the one project in North America that has not balooned in price.
You dont need to dontate money to get the information.

Deank wrote:the information has all been available in bits and pieces. But still does not add up to something good.

This statement tells me all I need to know

Also do you believe the goverment is going to give away the money with out a proper bussiness plan comeon .

Pavolo wrote:Also do you believe the goverment is going to give away the money with out a proper bussiness plan comeon .

umm...are the sarcasm fonts missing from this?

Besides the fact the government does indeed do this all the time...... Name 5 prominant politicians who have even questioned this project.. no wait.. name 2.

HOLY FRICKEN COW!

They admit the budget might not be the budget.

O'Reilly suggested projected expenditures may not be carved in stone, while the construction budget is under review.
"We're looking at the options around that. Nothing has been decided just yet -- whether or not we try to manage it within $265 million, or build it to a slightly higher number," he said, without specifying where any additional cash would come from.
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/winnipeg/2008/12/19/7799466-sun.html
But...Asper is not to concerned... yeah why would she be.. the government will just cough up the cash.
"
Gail Asper, the public face of the project and one of its eight board trustees, isn't overly worried about possible cost overruns.
"There are definitely budgetary pressures," Asper said.
"You make the budget fit what you can pull together from the levels of government and the community. And we've got a very fiscally responsible set of folks looking at all that," she said.
"

Why is it that everyone cries a blue streak when someone wants to do a good thing for this city? Yes it is partial public money but if the Friends of the Museum do not make their budget through fundraising, then the public money is not put forth, so right now the money has been "assigned" but it has not been handed over. Obviously they fundraising has been reached (or will be by February '09) or else they wouldn't be breaking ground today. And maybe, through his vast fortune, Izzy may have put aside extra cash to help fulfill his legacy to this city.
My question to all is have you donated, because if you haven't yet, don't complain because this is for the good of history and the future of the human race (your children and grandchildren will benefit from this museum more than you will ever know).

"don't complain because this is for the good of history and the future of the human race (your children and grandchildren will benefit from this museum more than you will ever know)."
Sure they will thats what "they" keep saying buy "they" wont say how.
Holy.. read all the rest of the posts where I am complaining that they wont admit it will be over budget even though there is no possible way it will not. Now read today's post where they finally admit to budget concerns... but they are not too concerned as they will just go back to the trough for more.

Deank, time for your nap.

Deank wrote:HOLY FRICKEN COW!

They admit the budget might not be the budget.

O'Reilly suggested projected expenditures may not be carved in stone, while the construction budget is under review.
"We're looking at the options around that. Nothing has been decided just yet -- whether or not we try to manage it within $265 million, or build it to a slightly higher number," he said, without specifying where any additional cash would come from.
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/winnipeg/2008/12/19/7799466-sun.html
But...Asper is not to concerned... yeah why would she be.. the government will just cough up the cash.
"
Gail Asper, the public face of the project and one of its eight board trustees, isn't overly worried about possible cost overruns.
"There are definitely budgetary pressures," Asper said.
"You make the budget fit what you can pull together from the levels of government and the community. And we've got a very fiscally responsible set of folks looking at all that," she said.
"

I think Dean has it right. They will come up with $105 million in private donations, begin construction in the spring and then innocently proclaim that construction costs have gone up and they need more tax dollars. Being painted into a corner, the Feds will have no choice but to pony up the difference.

Show us the business plan.

Quoted from Winnipeg Sun article dated Dec 19th @ 2:21PM
"Asper, a museum board trustee, and chief operating officer Patrick O'Reilly have suggested that private fundraising may have to go further than its current $105-million target if the construction cost rises.
So far, that campaign has brought in about $102 million."

So if I am to believe everything the press writes as gospel, then the Feds will not be on the hook for the extra money. Think outside the box and be an optimist for once.

holly golightly wrote:Quoted from Winnipeg Sun article dated Dec 19th @ 2:21PM
"Asper, a museum board trustee, and chief operating officer Patrick O'Reilly have suggested that private fundraising may have to go further than its current $105-million target if the construction cost rises.
So far, that campaign has brought in about $102 million."

So if I am to believe everything the press writes as gospel, then the Feds will not be on the hook for the extra money. Think outside the box and be an optimist for once.

Their fundraising is struggling, at best. In fact, it is hurting so badly that the backers are trying to generate excitement by coming up with $4.5 million. All this shows is that the average person is NOT opening their wallet to support this project.

So, if there are cost overruns, and if you believe that the Feds won't pay anything beyong $100 million, where will this extra money have to come from? If they must privately raise all the money to meet updated costs before construction begins, when do you think they will actually be able to break ground?

It appears that construction costs are rising faster than their fundraising costs. The simple solution is to simple FORCE the Feds to cough up more money. After all, who will say No?

They could just make the place 30% smaller for all we know...we haven't seen any real plans afterall.

I sure hope it's true that she has a fund to look after the maintenance of the place.

JTF wrote:They could just make the place 30% smaller for all we know...we haven't seen any real plans afterall.

I sure hope it's true that she has a fund to look after the maintenance of the place.

The fund for cost overruns is known as the "taxpayer."