ground breaking ceremonies... should they maybe break ground?

Electrician wrote:There have been MANY Holocausts all over the world, and even in recent years in Africa for example. There wasn't just ONE Holocaust...
I'm not being rude, just sayin'.

I'd say there have been many genocides including some recent ones. But there's only been on event known as the Holocaust.

Deank wrote:

grumpy old man wrote:CHMRV??? What = V?

As for university and college naming rights et al, umm, can you say irrelevant?

Not irrelevant at all.. goes to that fact that people who make large donations often expect some say in how their money is spent. For instance.. Gail Asper is on the board of this museum... from her donation of efforts behind it ( and money donation as well I assume ) .. now other then getting it off the ground, what creditionals does she have that says she is a worthwhile member of the board? I am not saying she should not be either. I am just saying that it is to be expected.

Fortunately, before they were on the Board, Gail and Arni and others came up with a list of recommendations for the Board members, including being flown around the world on the taxpayer's dime on "fact-finding" missions. You could appoint any idle rich person to the board and get them educated by flying them around the world and putting them up in nice hotels, etc. Awfully incestuous to make these recommendations and then get yourself actually appointed to one of these plum positions that you helped advised on.

Of course, due to the face that we have a spineless media, this sort of largess fails to make news.

You don't need credentials, you just need power...preferably derived from money.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

holocaust
Main Entry: ho·lo·caust
Pronunciation: \ˈhō-lə-ˌkȯst, ˈhä- also -ˌkäst or ˈhȯ-lə-kȯst\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos burnt whole, from hol- kaustos burnt, from kaiein to burn — more at causticDate: 13th century
1: a sacrifice consumed by fire
2: a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire holocaust>
3 a: often capitalized : the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II —usually used with the
3 b: a mass slaughter of people
; especially :genocide

grumpy old man wrote:Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

holocaust
Main Entry: ho·lo·caust
Pronunciation: \ˈhō-lə-ˌkȯst, ˈhä- also -ˌkäst or ˈhȯ-lə-kȯst\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos burnt whole, from hol- kaustos burnt, from kaiein to burn — more at causticDate: 13th century
1: a sacrifice consumed by fire
2: a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire holocaust>
3 a: often capitalized : the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II —usually used with the
3 b: a mass slaughter of people
; especially :genocide

And your point is what, exactly?

You said: "But there's only been on event known as the Holocaust."

Merriam's suggests otherwise. That said whenever I think of the holocaust there is only one that I think of...

[quote="grumpy old man"]You said: "But there's only been on event known as the Holocaust."

Merriam's suggests otherwise. That said whenever I think of the holocaust there is only one that I think of...[/quote

I should have said "The Holocaust." My bad.

Do you know what they calling this museum back in the early days? The Wholly Cost museum, a reference to the city being wholesale city.

http://shopping.yahoo.com/video/images/muze/dvd/sm/19/1991719.jpg
And this too.

(If you REALLY want to find money for the roads)


Why not take it from the gas tax where it was supposed to come from.

grumpy old man wrote:Hard to say what new revenues the new stadium will create. We can assume increased attendance will help (in my world that is a given). Plus the added benefit to the University sport teams.

By moving the stadium, something else will move into Polo Park. Without knowing what that might be it is hard to say if new revenues will result. But that area will surely improve without that ugly dinosaur sitting there.



Suffice to say the city needs to grow. It needs new structures, even in trying times. Maybe because of trying times.

Yes it sure does and we have to learn to dream big again not in Black and White

Sorry, but I think some need a big dose of reality.

Name names!

heh..I'm sure they know who they are...

Why does "White Elephant" keep coming to mind whenever I thin of the new Human Rights Museum?

Sorta like the company called De Havilland and Bombardier, CBC, god you name it it is all over Canada . What about all the money we give the arts people who can't make a living from there art cept at the public trough.

Sorta not like them.

Why not they are tax suckers or have been , hell the CBC is nothing but . There are very few countries that do not support their own through tax dollars . The museum will lose money so what , doe's the senate make money or the CBC .
It will become something which Canadians are proud of just to bad the city that has it is not . To bad the people there don't know, how not to be Cheap.

De Havilland and Bombardier make a product,,,at least something besides crap comes out of their rear ends...unlike the museum.

Bombardier is built on yours and mine tax dollars and govt loan guarantees. Yes it employs foreigners but not Manitobans, and what do you know about the product of the museum as it is really not known .

blah blah blah is not a product to me...

It reminds me of that big pink elephant building on Ellice at Vaughan built by Axworthy that sat vacant for a few years before they found something to do with it.....

The real reason was that the snobby people in Ottawa would not come here to fill their duties . They whined to the union and won shame that the goverment is so weak . Just like the Taxation when it first opened no one moved or would till told their position was to be done away with if they didn't

This is just too good a post not to show it here. This guy has several very good points.

From The Winnipeg Sun,
http://blog.canoe.ca/raisinghell/2008/12/19/human_rights_museum_nice_but_pricey

Comment from: howie perry [Visitor]
Tom
I admire and respect Gail Asper's enthusiasm, dedication and ability to get things done. I do not share her views on the Canadian Museum of Human Rights.

Vision
I disagree with the concept of a Museum designed to promote peace, love, and understanding by showcasing how nasty humans can be to each other. If you want to teach your child to be nice, loving and caring you don't show them Silence of the Lambs or American Psycho!!
Gail references the students returning from Washington who are now saving our planet, by solving genocide, poverty, homelessness, and racism. I don't doubt their ideals and efforts, but shouldn't we have solved all the world's problems by now? Millions of students have visited the Holocaust Museum for many years and from where I sit there is still a ton of violence and trouble in the world. Also, anything that is to be presented in this Museum can currently be accessed in free libraries and on the Internet, also for free. By referencing in this manner you also get the opportunity to research BOTH sides in any conflict. I doubt if Gandhi, Mother Theresa or Mandela ever visited a museum of human rights. They acted, and again, unlimited information already exists on them and is free!

There are currently hundreds of places of peace in Winnipeg that represent and promote peace, love and understanding daily and are totally free except for volunteer contributions. They are our Synagogues, Mosques, Churches, and other religious institutions and each one promotes kindness, love, peace and are open and available to everyone!!
Also, to reference other world Museums which have been established for decades and compare this to them is wrong. Take the Holocaust Museum for example: we live where there is a population of approximately 1Million people in a 3 hour radius; Washington has over 50 million people within the same area. One is in the Nation's Capital city where there are myriads of famous historical and educational museums and sites. We will soon have an Ikea! How can one even begin to compare these two? Or The Guggenheim?
I share in Gail's utopian dreams, but recognize them as just that.

Content
Will there be a section for Iraq? How will George Bush be portrayed? As a freedom fighter? Or the 21 century's biggest mass murderer? Will there be a wing for him? Will there be a Crusades section? What will it say about what the early white settlers did (and are still doing) to our First Nations people? Will Abel be the poster boy for the Genesis wing? What about the Pasternaks? The Winnipeg girls who are victims of Human Rights atrocities right here as deemed by our own Human Rights Commission. Will there be a section for them? Will Ezra Levant, the violater of Human Rights as deemed by the Alberta Commission even be allowed in the building?
What is included and excluded could be debated ad nauseum, but someone will decide and it will be controversial.


Projections/Cost/Benefit
Focus groups held earlier this year held solely to support the Museum were unanimous in their findings. They will not come to Winnipeg to visit this Museum. I do not know what could be clearer. These were from the special "targeted groups" pre-disposed to visit the Museum. These results were not released by The Minister of Heritage (who held the groups) but only when requested under freedom of information. Let's see; Government ignoring and covering up the will of the people who spoke but were not heard- will there be a section for them? The original projections of 400,000 people (March 2006) annually has been reduced to 300,00 and then 250,000 and now 200,000 and it will include internet "clicks" or visits as well. We really have no idea about how many people will pay to attend. We will pay for over 20,000 school children/year to attend. For a community to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a Museum while our roads and streets are in the worst condition in history, bridges are in disrepair, and a Provincial Government who has had 145 kids die while under their care and watch (will there be a special wing for them?) makes no sense to me at all. As a society, our priorities have to be reviewed. I cannot believe that anyone thinks building a Museum should take precedence over kids lives. Also, the past 90 days' economic news has changed how we view the future and should be a caution to any project, especially this one that seemingly no one will pay to visit.


Fundraising

It is not a popular position to question this Museum without risking labels of racist, bigot, or anti-semite, but I have a huge problem with what has gone on to raise funds for the Museum. One is led to believe there is a massive groundswell of grassroots National support. This is false. The major donations come from 3 levels of Government, , and it does not have hundreds of thousand individual supporters. Among the largest contributors are 4 Crown Corporations of Manitoba who all decided, on the same day when fundraising had stalled, to donate $1Million each from MPI, Manitoba Hydro, Manitoba Lotteries, and MLCC. This really looks and smells bad. I pay Manitoba Hydro as a non profit utility to provide energy to my home. That is their mandate and our relationship. For them to take 1 cent let alone $1 Million and give it to our Premier's pet project is totally wrong. Ditto for the other 3. This really stinks and who I wonder thinks this is proper?

The Canadian Museum of Human Rights could be exactly what the world is waiting for and I truly hope it is. I just have no reason to believe it will be.
Peace
Permalink 24/12/2008 @ 13:51

fromt he winnipeg sun

"
Forces behind the Museum for Human Rights have a rougher road ahead, Elbera said.
"There will be a delay come the fall season," she said. "This delay is coming from the north, or a northerly direction -- it could even be the weather. But there will be a delay of two years before it opens." "
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/winnipeg/2008/12/30/7879421-sun.html

Triniman wrote:
Comment from: howie perry [Visitor]


Vision
I disagree with the concept of a Museum designed to promote peace, love, and understanding by showcasing how nasty humans can be to each other. If you want to teach your child to be nice, loving and caring you don't show them Silence of the Lambs or American Psycho!!
Gail references the students returning from Washington who are now saving our planet, by solving genocide, poverty, homelessness, and racism. I don't doubt their ideals and efforts, but shouldn't we have solved all the world's problems by now? Millions of students have visited the Holocaust Museum for many years and from where I sit there is still a ton of violence and trouble in the world. Also, anything that is to be presented in this Museum can currently be accessed in free libraries and on the Internet, also for free. By referencing in this manner you also get the opportunity to research BOTH sides in any conflict. I doubt if Gandhi, Mother Theresa or Mandela ever visited a museum of human rights. They acted, and again, unlimited information already exists on them and is free!

There are currently hundreds of places of peace in Winnipeg that represent and promote peace, love and understanding daily and are totally free except for volunteer contributions. They are our Synagogues, Mosques, Churches, and other religious institutions and each one promotes kindness, love, peace and are open and available to everyone!!
Also, to reference other world Museums which have been established for decades and compare this to them is wrong. Take the Holocaust Museum for example: we live where there is a population of approximately 1Million people in a 3 hour radius; Washington has over 50 million people within the same area. One is in the Nation's Capital city where there are myriads of famous historical and educational museums and sites. We will soon have an Ikea! How can one even begin to compare these two? Or The Guggenheim?
I share in Gail's utopian dreams, but recognize them as just that.


Projections/Cost/Benefit
Focus groups held earlier this year held solely to support the Museum were unanimous in their findings. They will not come to Winnipeg to visit this Museum. I do not know what could be clearer. These were from the special "targeted groups" pre-disposed to visit the Museum. These results were not released by The Minister of Heritage (who held the groups) but only when requested under freedom of information. Let's see; Government ignoring and covering up the will of the people who spoke but were not heard- will there be a section for them? The original projections of 400,000 people (March 2006) annually has been reduced to 300,00 and then 250,000 and now 200,000 and it will include internet "clicks" or visits as well. We really have no idea about how many people will pay to attend. We will pay for over 20,000 school children/year to attend. For a community to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a Museum while our roads and streets are in the worst condition in history, bridges are in disrepair, and a Provincial Government who has had 145 kids die while under their care and watch (will there be a special wing for them?) makes no sense to me at all. As a society, our priorities have to be reviewed. I cannot believe that anyone thinks building a Museum should take precedence over kids lives. Also, the past 90 days' economic news has changed how we view the future and should be a caution to any project, especially this one that seemingly no one will pay to visit.


Fundraising

It is not a popular position to question this Museum without risking labels of racist, bigot, or anti-semite, but I have a huge problem with what has gone on to raise funds for the Museum. One is led to believe there is a massive groundswell of grassroots National support. This is false. The major donations come from 3 levels of Government, , and it does not have hundreds of thousand individual supporters. Among the largest contributors are 4 Crown Corporations of Manitoba who all decided, on the same day when fundraising had stalled, to donate $1Million each from MPI, Manitoba Hydro, Manitoba Lotteries, and MLCC. This really looks and smells bad. I pay Manitoba Hydro as a non profit utility to provide energy to my home. That is their mandate and our relationship. For them to take 1 cent let alone $1 Million and give it to our Premier's pet project is totally wrong. Ditto for the other 3. This really stinks and who I wonder thinks this is proper?

This could be the most brillant argument yet, as to why the Museum of Human Pain & Suffering should not be built. I challenge anyone in the "pro-Museum" camp to debunk this letter...

Pavolo wrote:Why not they are tax suckers or have been , hell the CBC is nothing but . There are very few countries that do not support their own through tax dollars . The museum will lose money so what , doe's the senate make money or the CBC .
It will become something which Canadians are proud of just to bad the city that has it is not . To bad the people there don't know, how not to be Cheap.

ummm, you should ask people from other provinces about what they think of the museum before assuming all Canadians will be "proud" of this Museum. I certainly am not. In fact, it makes me embarrassed to admit that I was born and raised in Winnipeg.
What on earth makes you so sure that this Museum will put Winnipeg on the map? I see it for what it really is- a waste of taxpayer money that would be better spent on city infrastructure, like improving roads, and even implementing future rapid transit lines.
If you really took a step back, you would realise that you are only fooling yourself by saying this museum will make Canadians proud. the only people to take pride in this "mistake in the making" is the Aspers, who duped Joe Taxpayer into shelling out for it to be built in the first place...

I swear howie perry must read Trinimans comments on these websites... cause thats almost exactly what Trin has been saying.

Deank wrote:I swear howie perry must read Trinimans comments on these websites... cause thats almost exactly what Trin has been saying.

That just shows us that there are others out there who feel this museum is a bunch of BS. I would much rather see that money going to something else...like LRT or something that'll benefit everyone!