City to steal more money from Winnnipeggers pockets AND shut the housing market down.

incorrect. the law is not made in anyway to allow for any delay. in fact they state quite clearly that they will somehow miracously due inspections 5 days from application.
The bylaw states the BUYER.. not the SELLER do this and while they have an expectation that this will actually force the seller to do it, there is nothing in the law at all about the seller.
The zoning memorandums are ONLY good for one year so unless people are "flipping" houses it will in essence be useless for them
they are only hiring 5 people ( one of them a secretary) to do this and are basing their numbers on a mere 9,000 homes sold per year which is a complete load of crap with over 12K houses being sold the last 3 years in a row.

no idea if this link will actually work or not and the city website is slow today

http://winnipeg.ca/CLKDMIS/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=9909&SectionId=242684&InitUrl=/CLKDMIS/Documents/pd/2010/a9909/12.%20%20ris%205927%20-%20admin%20report%20zoning%20memorandums%20nov%2009.pdf

"In Calgary they have private contractors that do the survey (for $350) and the city stamps the plan (for an additional $90) before the new owners can take possession of the house and the lawyers to release the funds to the seller. It usually takes about a week to be completed."

If true.. the city is not telling the truth as they list Calgary at $186.

Shouldn't the Land transfer tax be something that already pays for this service?

one thing to note... Just like home inspections are a very wise idea before buying a house. In our current market and the many bidding wars home inspections often get left off of the offer just to ensure that you WIN the bid. So while it may be expected that the buyer will start requiring the seller to get the city inspection done.... on some houses it will be the first thing to go from the offer.

Deank wrote:"In Calgary they have private contractors that do the survey (for $350) and the city stamps the plan (for an additional $90) before the new owners can take possession of the house and the lawyers to release the funds to the seller. It usually takes about a week to be completed."

If true.. the city is not telling the truth as they list Calgary at $186.

Where did it say that?

The only thing that I think they could be referring to is the certificate of compliance. In Alberta there are multiple land surveyors that are contracted to survey all properties. When you get an updated survey, you pay them directly and the city doesn't get any money for that work. However because it is a provincial law to require a current survey with every transaction, they are kept busy.

The only thing the city gets is the fee for the compliance stamp on the survey. When I sold my house in December it cost me $90 to the city.

Not sure where the $186 figure comes from.

Deank wrote:Shouldn't the Land transfer tax be something that already pays for this service?

Different jurisdictions. Land transfer tax is a provincial tax. Zoning and compliance is a responsibility of the city.

Deank wrote:one thing to note... Just like home inspections are a very wise idea before buying a house. In our current market and the many bidding wars home inspections often get left off of the offer just to ensure that you WIN the bid. So while it may be expected that the buyer will start requiring the seller to get the city inspection done.... on some houses it will be the first thing to go from the offer.

This will most likely become a legal requirement of the seller to provide a current survey and not be a part of the bidding process. If that is the case the seller will be the one making sure that the survey gets completed.

If not, I think buyers will be suspicious of properties being sold without a current survey and proof of zoning compliance.

Aren't you supposed to take out permits before you build a shed or a deck?

This is a way of:

1. getting all the illegal work that was done on the city books for increased assessments, and

2. getting much needed cash into the city's account....since we have had a tax freeze for 10 years plus eh, and Sammy is just doing the tax increase thing through the back door....one of Sammy's favorite positions I reckon.

In a BUYERS market it is entirely believable that they will start putting this into the requirements for sale. In a SELLERS market like we have now and have had for a number of years now there will always most likely be at least one Buyer willing to take the risk of a not having a city inspection done before hand.

Put the onus on the seller.. problem solved. (but still not acceptible if nothing at all on the property has changed since it was originally built)

what is the purpose of the land transfer tax if not to pay for things like this?

The land transfer tax is only for recording names I believe.

kind of a little expensive for some done so cheaply dont ya think?

Deank wrote:Put the onus on the seller.. problem solved. (but still not acceptible if nothing at all on the property has changed since it was originally built)

In Calgary you only have to update your survey if something has changed on the property.

I think that realtors will be putting the onus on their selling clients. Good realtors will just bury the costs of the inspection into their fees to prevent losing potential buyers.

Private sellers will be under more scrutiny from the buyers. It is kinda like selling a car on eBay and the CarFax or CarProof services. They are completely optional, but give buyers more confidence when buying a car. As it stands, private sellers put out as much documentation they have for potential buyers. When I was looking at a ComFree house this weekend the dining room table was covered in Hydro bills, property tax bills, insurance bills, a private appraisal, a third party inspection report and a survey of the property. Certainly made me feel better about potentially buying the house.

JTF wrote:Aren't you supposed to take out permits before you build a shed or a deck?

This is a way of:

1. getting all the illegal work that was done on the city books for increased assessments, and

2. getting much needed cash into the city's account....since we have had a tax freeze for 10 years plus eh, and Sammy is just doing the tax increase thing through the back door....one of Sammy's favorite positions I reckon.

Umm...it depends.

There's guidelines about that for permits.
Mostly it depends on SIZE of the deck or shed.
For example for a shed, you only need a permit if it's larger than 120 sq/ft.
For a deck, there's other guidelines...and it doesn't apply if you're replacing an existing deck to the same dimensions.

It also depends on whether the shed is "permanent" or not...and how close to a house it can be.
Plus other factors such as wiring, lighting, etc.

"I think that realtors will be putting the onus on their selling clients. Good realtors will just bury the costs of the inspection into their fees to prevent losing potential buyers."

The law should be putting the onus on the sellers.. not realtors good will.

Deank wrote:"I think that realtors will be putting the onus on their selling clients. Good realtors will just bury the costs of the inspection into their fees to prevent losing potential buyers."

The law should be putting the onus on the sellers.. not realtors good will.

I agree.

Sorta still on topic.

Its a little ridiculous why we have so many houses that are not properly documented. But we all know some of the reasons

1) Often getting a permit can be mindboggling complex and take way to much time and cost way to much money.
2) Often getting a permit seems to have no real reason why apermit needs to be done or why some things need one but others do not. ( ie 121 sq ft needs one... 119 does not? )
3) Getting a permit has the dubious dinstinction of people thinking their property value will automatically increase and their taxes will go up.
4) Often... permits can be refused because of neighbors refusing to allow or fighting a variance.

A good example of number 4... someone I know wanted to build a slightly oversized garage on his property. his backlane neighbor threatened to fight it because (and this is the awesome part) having that garage in the place that my friend wanted to build it, would make it harder for him (the neighbor) to back out of his garage. Seems like a reasonable reason to fight it right? Except the variance was to build the garage 6 inches CLOSER to his own house and would not impact the ability or inability of his neighbor to back out of his garage in anyway different then if my friend just built the garage to regulation.

"Hydro bills"

speaking of which.. Hydro keeps a totally awesome database of how much energy a house has used and owners have online access to it, its perhaps something that should be asked for as well when buying a house these days??

Having worked in the real estate business, it was not uncommon for the buyer to put a condition into the offer that the seller provide a "current" survey certificate satisfactory to the buyer. This was expecially the case of older homes and where things (fences, garages, etc) had been bult since the last survey. It was not a big deal. I got one on my house when we bought it and it was 3 years old, so no problem.

All the buyer has to do is put the requirement of this zoning certificate into the offer to purchase that the seller must provide it. As time goes on, more sellers (hopefully realtors will tell them when they sign the listing) will get this as a part of selling their house.

Caveat emptor.

AND... just like house inspections that everyone "Agrees" you should do when purchasing a home in a hot housing market those inspections go right out the window and are removed as a condition

Only a bad lawyer would do a deal without a survey certificate imo.

If this is about zoning, it will do nothing for the buyer or seller, and only get the city info from which to presecute the landowner for violations.

Deank wrote:AND... just like house inspections that everyone "Agrees" you should do when purchasing a home in a hot housing market those inspections go right out the window and are removed as a condition

Caveat Emptor, except in a hot market???

Only fool would rely on one of those 'home inspections' to guarantee the house is in good order. There are so many conditions that the document is useless in court.

JTF wrote:Aren't you supposed to take out permits before you build a shed or a deck?

This is a way of:

1. getting all the illegal work that was done on the city books for increased assessments, and

2. getting much needed cash into the city's account....since we have had a tax freeze for 10 years plus eh, and Sammy is just doing the tax increase thing through the back door....one of Sammy's favorite positions I reckon.

No it is the cities way of getting all the improperly built decks garages and what not off the market for your safety . If the cheap ass Winnipegers would take a permit to start , most of this would not be needed .

I'd say it's a little of both...

My 1971 survey shows a shed at the back of the 300' property, close to the lane, where one took his wife, back in the 1920s , to beat her! It virtually fell apart. How does that impact what this $180 tax is all about?
12,000 homes x $180 =appx $2 million dollars at a cost of ? $400,000 including salaries for inside and outside personnel!
And no tax increase, thank s Sammy!
What a brilliant manager. Everyone is happy!

Take the new zoning memorandums by-law which will eventually force and regardless of whether it is the seller or buyer to eventually do the required upgrades imposed by the city...

Which then means for those with older homes they will in the long run have to abandon their older homes as a result of the cost to benefit ratio being skewed and those homes will eventually become derelicts...And...

Bang...The new City Dereclict by-law right there to take over that entire property complete with the lot your old derelict home was on leaving you with what...Notta!!!!...

And Sammy and his friends smiling...GGF

HEY HEY its GGF!!

you have some awesome posts on the papers websites dude.

Thank you...Just doing my thing...Fed up with this Sammy and so much more...GGF

Did you see Sammy trying to add a tax on a tax in today's paper?