City to steal more money from Winnnipeggers pockets AND shut the housing market down.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Council-passes-zoning-memorandum-83350382.html

totally awesome. they are charging $180 per home
they are hiring 5 guys to do this.

there are about 12000 homes sold every year in winnipeg.

you do the math

If you look at this for a moment, this may be a good thing, forcing not only buyers but sellers to obtain a certificate of inspection on the home they are buying/selling. I would sooner pay the $180 now than possibly pay thousands later because I wasn't smart enough to have the house I was buying inspected and certified that it met the zoning codes and was safe to buy/sell and even live in. Unfortunately that $180 will go into the city coffers as opposed to a private inspection company.
Some homes, both newer and the older ones in the "old city" should not ever be put on the market because of the condition of the foundation, walls, electrical, plumbing but yet are being sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars. At least this will demand that homes are in legal condition to be sold.

That should work fine by bureaucratic standards- 10 per day per inspector that is about 30 minutes plus travel time?
The idea is very good, and will certainly save some people from getting stuck with something that they should be told about?
What is the liability to the City if a 30 minute inspection doesn't tell them that the basement floods , because there is a finished piece of drywall recently installed to hide the problem!

Most "good" inspectors would ask why the drywall was recently put up and if the answer was suspicious they could ask to have a piece removed to see what is behind it. . In saying that, "good" inspectors working for the City may be a stretch but we can only hope............
As well, if you as a potential buyer are not comfortable with the inspector that is there from the city, you can have your own come out as well and have the two look at the property together and write their own report

but really look at it holly

1) the BUYER is required to get one within 2 months after buying. so no onus on the seller and no guarentees that the house you have already purchased is fit to live in.

2) as with traditional home inspections there will be ZERO ability to sure the city in the case that their home inspector made a mistake and approved something that should not have been approved.

3) In the case where 2 months after the sale the inspector find something. depending on how bad it is the new owner will be required to bring it up to code immediatley with the possibility of being evicted from their house until such time as it is brought up to code. which of course having just purchased a house will not be something easy to do for most people since they just spent a significant amount of money

4) the city is hiring a whole 5 new guys. There is on average 12000 houses sold in the city annually. yes I realize that there is already an existing department with inspectors. but lets say that the 5 new guys will be responsible for 6000 houses per year. IF they some how worked 365 days per year they would each be responsible for 3ish houses per day thats a big if. 250 days per year is more likely so they will have to each inspect about 5 houses per day. Travel and paper work time included this does not leave much time do the actual inspections and do a good job of it.

Deank wrote:http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Council-passes-zoning-memorandum-83350382.html

totally awesome. they are charging $180 per home
they are hiring 5 guys to do this.

there are about 12000 homes sold every year in winnipeg.

you do the math

That's nothing. When you sell a house in Calgary you are required to provide an updated survey (aka real property report) to the new buyers. If there are no changes from the previous one you can use the one that you got from the previous owners.

If you add a fence, deck, shed, patio or any other structure you have to have your property surveyed and RPR updated to the tune of $340. Then you have to go to the city and have it stamped to ensure that all changes done were properly permitted and do not encroach on your neighbours property.

It certainly protects potential buyers from some shoddy additions, deck or garages that weren't inspected.

yes...this is just another scam the city is using to steal money from people.

basically, it's their way of imposing a "tax" without calling it a "tax".

All it's really going to do is prevent some people from selling...or make more people sell "by owner" and try to avoid the new taxes.

And holly...just cause a home is old...doesn't mean it's not safe. Even if it doesn't meet the city's "law" of what is safe or not.

My home is over 100 years old, and needs some cosmetic work...but generally I'd say is safer than some of the new homes I've seen being built around the city. Standards 100 years ago were actually HIGHER than they are now for most construction. Upgrades in electric, plumbing, etc. of course improve things...but there are already standards to meet when doing those things.

AGEsAces wrote:All it's really going to do is prevent some people from selling...or make more people sell "by owner" and try to avoid the new taxes.

Not exactly. The realtor won't care. It is the lawyer that will need it.

sputnik wrote:

AGEsAces wrote:All it's really going to do is prevent some people from selling...or make more people sell "by owner" and try to avoid the new taxes.

Not exactly. The realtor won't care. It is the lawyer that will need it.

Tell that to the realtors.

According to the news today, the Realtor Association is already protesting the announcement.

sputnik wrote:

Deank wrote:http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Council-passes-zoning-memorandum-83350382.html

totally awesome. they are charging $180 per home
they are hiring 5 guys to do this.

there are about 12000 homes sold every year in winnipeg.

you do the math

That's nothing. When you sell a house in Calgary you are required to provide an updated survey (aka real property report) to the new buyers. If there are no changes from the previous one you can use the one that you got from the previous owners.

If you add a fence, deck, shed, patio or any other structure you have to have your property surveyed and RPR updated to the tune of $340. Then you have to go to the city and have it stamped to ensure that all changes done were properly permitted and do not encroach on your neighbours property.

It certainly protects potential buyers from some shoddy additions, deck or garages that weren't inspected.

I believe this is the way it is done here in Edmonton as well. I don't see this as a cash grab at all. As property owners, we are responsible for the upkeep of our homes. And I feel this is a good system to keep homeowners in check on the work that they do to their property while they are the owners, and will help to protect buyers when purchasing these properties. I have no problems complying with this and nor should other people, unless they have something to hide? Responsible homeownership can cost money, and if people are not prepared for this, then they shouldn't bare this responsibility and rent instead.

AGEsAces wrote:My home is over 100 years old, and needs some cosmetic work...but generally I'd say is safer than some of the new homes I've seen being built around the city. Standards 100 years ago were actually HIGHER than they are now for most construction. Upgrades in electric, plumbing, etc. of course improve things...but there are already standards to meet when doing those things.

None of those things have anything to do with zoning regulations. Those are building code issues and all work done must only adhere to the building code at the time of construction.

What is being proposed is ensuring that there are no zoning or surveying problems.

This would be things like...

- deck, garage or fence built that encroaches on your neighbour
- garage built that is too large for the property
- rental suite in the basement or attic on a property not zoned for multiple residences
- illegal rooming house
- fence not built along the property line

When you buy a house it is easy to inspect the mechanical and electrical systems. However it is much harder to ensure that everything built complies with the current zoning of the property.

EdWin wrote:

sputnik wrote:

Deank wrote:http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Council-passes-zoning-memorandum-83350382.html

totally awesome. they are charging $180 per home
they are hiring 5 guys to do this.

there are about 12000 homes sold every year in winnipeg.

you do the math

That's nothing. When you sell a house in Calgary you are required to provide an updated survey (aka real property report) to the new buyers. If there are no changes from the previous one you can use the one that you got from the previous owners.

If you add a fence, deck, shed, patio or any other structure you have to have your property surveyed and RPR updated to the tune of $340. Then you have to go to the city and have it stamped to ensure that all changes done were properly permitted and do not encroach on your neighbours property.

It certainly protects potential buyers from some shoddy additions, deck or garages that weren't inspected.

I believe this is the way it is done here in Edmonton as well. I don't see this as a cash grab at all. As property owners, we are responsible for the upkeep of our homes. And I feel this is a good system to keep homeowners in check on the work that they do to their property while they are the owners, and will help to protect buyers when purchasing these properties. I have no problems complying with this and nor should other people, unless they have something to hide? Responsible homeownership can cost money, and if people are not prepared for this, then they shouldn't bare this responsibility and rent instead.

Edwin.

The is ZERO onus on the current home owner to get his/her house inspected. Only when someone purchases the home must they then call the city to come for an inspection. Even if they have no intention of ever selling the house again. How exactly is this a benefit to anyone?

AGEsAces wrote:

sputnik wrote:

AGEsAces wrote:All it's really going to do is prevent some people from selling...or make more people sell "by owner" and try to avoid the new taxes.

Not exactly. The realtor won't care. It is the lawyer that will need it.

Tell that to the realtors.

According to the news today, the Realtor Association is already protesting the announcement.

of course they are against it. It will very quickly cause a serious log jam in the industry. Sales will start to require X dollars be set aside until such time as the city home inspection can aprove X and X and X. Its going to cause a freakin nightmare the way they have implemented this. HAD they instead required that before any home can be sold an inspection must be completed it would make it alot smarter. The inspection certificate and all its requirements could be attached as part of the sale.

AGEsAces wrote:
And holly...just cause a home is old...doesn't mean it's not safe. Even if it doesn't meet the city's "law" of what is safe or not.

My home is over 100 years old, and needs some cosmetic work...but generally I'd say is safer than some of the new homes I've seen being built around the city. Standards 100 years ago were actually HIGHER than they are now for most construction. Upgrades in electric, plumbing, etc. of course improve things...but there are already standards to meet when doing those things.

We too live in a home that is upwards of 110 years old and to say that it is much better built than some of the homes being built now could be true but do you know for fact that your foundation does not have a crack? Unless you have had it inspected (or recently fixed), you wouldn't. Same theory applies to the plumbing, wiring, insulation, roofing etc. A lot of the homes that have been purchased by some of the so-called "housing rehab" groups (other than Habitat) have been going in, doing shoddy work, having it "inspected" and then selling it to buyers who end up having to sink more money into the home because of the shoddy work. It puts people and companies like this out of business but at least the honestly it back in business. It also makes the electricians and plumbers do their job properly when upgrading. We had an electrician come in to our place to give us an estimate and he told us we could run some of our wiring through our cold air ducts to save money. We knew this was wrong so we did not even call him back. I would far sooner pay to have my place renovated properly than risk the lives of my family to save a few bucks.

When we bought our house 22 years ago there was a dilapidated shed in the back corner of the property. We have since torn it down and built a new one in another location in the back yard. When the property was assessed, we were questioned regarding the shed as the previous assessment showed the shed in a different location. Because we moved the location of the shed, we will have to have the property re-surveyed to make sure it still stays within the guidelines. As well we added a deck that will also have to be inspected and added to the land survey. Again with these types of things, people just figure that they can replace or add on to their homes without the proper paperwork (permits) or skip that process because it takes too long and so bureaucratic. When we replaced out fence we had to make sure that it was going on our property line because on both sides of us are "vacant" property and one was because of a house fire. At the time only one lot was vacant so we wanted to make sure we were not encroaching on that property because it was rumoured to be on the market. Again just my thoughts.

Deank wrote:The is ZERO onus on the current home owner to get his/her house inspected. Only when someone purchases the home must they then call the city to come for an inspection. Even if they have no intention of ever selling the house again. How exactly is this a benefit to anyone?

I think you are getting building code inspections and zoning confused.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the work, more the location of said work on the property in question.

Basically forcing the seller to ensure that the property complies with the zoning by-laws.

This has nothing to do with the building code.

and again. none of that means a hill of beans because as the seller it will not be your responsibility to get the house inspected and brought up to code before selling.

Deank wrote:and again. none of that means a hill of beans because as the seller it will not be your responsibility to get the house inspected and brought up to code before selling.

A house inspection will not ensure that your property complies with the zoning of the property only that the house has no mechanical, electrical or structural issues.

The detached garage could be 2 feet onto the neighbours property, but the house inspector won't know that and will pass the property as long as it is built well.

Sput... these city mandates inspection are ONLY to the meeting of zoning guidelines and having nothing to do with mechanical, electrical or Structural issues. (unless they involve zoning guidelines)

Deank wrote:Sput... these city mandates inspection are ONLY to the meeting of zoning guidelines and having nothing to do with mechanical, electrical or Structural issues. (unless they involve zoning guidelines)

I know. What's wrong with that?

I personally think it is pretty sad that you can sell a property in Winnipeg without a copy of the land survey or a certificate of compliance from the city.

What happens when you buy a house and the city tells you to rip down your garage because it encroaches on or is over top of a utility right of way?

Personally I would like to know that information before I purchase a house. I am also sure the city would like to be made aware of properties that are in violation of the property lines and zoning.

This isn't a tax grab. It is bringing Winnipeg up to speed with almost any other major city in the country.

"What happens when you buy a house and the city tells you to rip down your garage because it encroaches on or is over top of a utility right of way?
"
Well I guess you are screwed since the city is only forcing the NEW BUYER NOT THE CURRENT OWNER to go and get an inspection done.

Deank wrote:"What happens when you buy a house and the city tells you to rip down your garage because it encroaches on or is over top of a utility right of way?
"
Well I guess you are screwed since the city is only forcing the NEW BUYER NOT THE CURRENT OWNER to go and get an inspection done.

Where did you learn how to read?

city council committee has approved a plan that will require homeowners
to prove all additions, sheds, decks and other work complies with
zoning regulations before properties are sold.

Council's property and development committee voted 2-1 to approve a
bylaw that technically requires home buyers to obtain zoning
memorandums within two months of purchasing residential properties.

But in effect, home sellers will wind up paying for the memorandums,
which will cost $100 for new homes or $180 for existing homes

probably at a much better place then you did

"technically requires home buyers to obtain zoning memorandums within two months of purchasing residential properties."

sputnik wrote:I personally think it is pretty sad that you can sell a property in Winnipeg without a copy of the land survey or a certificate of compliance from the city.

It's been a while since I last bought a house in Winnipeg but I seem to recall needing a copy of the survey to register my house...

Then there are the land transfer fees. The city likes to reach into our pockets to extract as much as they can. That said, I'm all for USER fees as long as they reflect true costs.

Deank wrote:probably at a much better place then you did

"technically requires home buyers to obtain zoning memorandums within two months of purchasing residential properties."

Correct. That is the way the law will be stated to allow for a delay from the surveyors.

However eventually once they catch up with the demand there will be no property transaction done without a proper zoning memorandum completed in advance.

In Calgary they have private contractors that do the survey (for $350) and the city stamps the plan (for an additional $90) before the new owners can take possession of the house and the lawyers to release the funds to the seller. It usually takes about a week to be completed.

incorrect. the law is not made in anyway to allow for any delay. in fact they state quite clearly that they will somehow miracously due inspections 5 days from application.
The bylaw states the BUYER.. not the SELLER do this and while they have an expectation that this will actually force the seller to do it, there is nothing in the law at all about the seller.
The zoning memorandums are ONLY good for one year so unless people are "flipping" houses it will in essence be useless for them
they are only hiring 5 people ( one of them a secretary) to do this and are basing their numbers on a mere 9,000 homes sold per year which is a complete load of crap with over 12K houses being sold the last 3 years in a row.

no idea if this link will actually work or not and the city website is slow today

http://winnipeg.ca/CLKDMIS/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=9909&SectionId=242684&InitUrl=/CLKDMIS/Documents/pd/2010/a9909/12.%20%20ris%205927%20-%20admin%20report%20zoning%20memorandums%20nov%2009.pdf