HOW WILL IT MAKE THINGS BETTER?

The knowledge may be there, but the presentation of it is not on our doorstep. Kids being kept in "dungeons" as you say won't have the access to the education in their home on how to become free but may see something that would help them if they have the opportunity to go to this museum through their school. People who are not willing to change never will and for the most part they are adults, but our children should be given that chance to make the decisions that are right for them and maybe, just maybe a few adults will make the change as well.

"but our children should be given that chance to make the decisions that are right for them and maybe, just maybe a few adults will make the change as well."

Unless all the human rights abusers in the world are stopped immediatly ( hell lets just kill them all ). The kids will also have the chance to learn from them. The Parents (as you indicate yourself) are the primary educators and as long as they show that its all right to abuse someone elses human rights the kids will never really learn ( from school or the museum)

But at least they will be given the option!!!!!! Knowledge is power!!!!!!!! So why are you trying to take that power away from your kids????????????? As a good parent I want my children to have every possible opportunity available and I am willing to pay for it and do pay for it through my taxes and if that means a museum that will enhance their oppotunities, so be it. Let's not deny our children the ability to gain knowledge first hand.

I am not trying to take it from my kids. And quite frankly I dont ever want my kids to have knowledge of human rights abuses first hand that would mean they were either the abuser or the the abusee. ( a museum will never ever be able to give first hand knowledge I would hope ).

I understand what you mean though. But I still do not see the actual ability of this museum to actually change anything or help anything.

Deank wrote:I understand what you mean though. But I still do not see the actual ability of this museum to actually change anything or help anything.

I think the statistics I listed earlier address that Dean.

It's not about presenting NEW information...it's about presenting information in a more effective manner. One which will provide new insight or a better understanding of the "how & why" instead of just the "who & what".

I will support the idea that it's "just another museum"...but I've seen hundreds of pictures of various pieces of art...and yet nothing compares to seeing it in person in the Met in NYC...observing the nuances and brush strokes.

I can listen to artists sing on the radio but nothing compares to a live concert.

While "first hand" is never the way to learn about atrocities...understanding in a 3-dimensional or "multi-level" format is much better than reading online or in a classroom.

Again...if the museum is done "right"...then it will be a worthwhile venture.

So that would mean that if Nelson Mandela were to grace this museum to speak you would not take or encourage your children to hear him speak??????????????? Because if what you say is your truth that you hope this museum will never be able to give first hand knowledge, Nelson Mandela would never be invited. He is, after all, a person who has suffered a great abuse by white South African society so he can give first hand knowledge of what is abuse and how one man was able to reach out and affect the change needed to change a country. What a shame that if, as you say, you would not want your children to hear first hand knowledge from an abusee.

Nelson Mandela speaking would be second-hand knowledge.

FlyingRat wrote:Nelson Mandela speaking would be second-hand knowledge.

yup
Where as giving someone the opportunity to abuse Nelson Mandela would be first hand knowledge ( or I guess for Nelson to abuse them, he does seem like a pretty tough guy)

And for the record... would it not serve the world better that instead of paying Nelson to come here (along with his entire group of guards and what not) ... would it not be better to pay him to speak, record it and then ensure he is available "online" once per month to answer questions?

Seems far more reasonable then flying him to Winnipeg if as you say knowledge is what we are after.

Explain to me how Nelson Mandela speaking about the abuse he endured is second hand knowledge and how he rose to the occassion is second hand knowledge????????????? I don't see it that way, he is re-telling HIS story not someone elses.

anyone telling a story about an event is second hand knowledge to the person receiving the information.

First hand knowledge is experiencing the story.

First-hand knowledge cannot be obtained from hearing someone speak about it. That's what makes it second-hand knowledge.

I still think all that money would be better served to help those in need....If the Askers really cared about this city then they would be donating all that money to feed and shelter the homeless, feed, cloth and shelter all of those children who are living in poverty. Some museum about Human Rights violations really doesn't mean too much to those kids who have nothing....there are people in this country who's Human rights are violated on a daily basis yet nothing is done about it....ie: Aboriginal women on reserves. Hmmm but maybe an exhibit about that will help...

But these children you are talking about who are being violated may not even know they are being violated but if they were to see a similar situation at this museum it may triger something in them to say "Hey this is what is happening to me and I may be able to use these ideas to get out of it". If not give the chance, how can one break the cycle?????????????

So it appears that the best we can hope for with the expediture of a couple of hundred million and another 25 per year, is the hope that it will make things better.

Shades of a gun registry race through my mind....lol

Are you suggesting by the mere act of driving (and funding) the museum that the Aspers don't care? Geeze. I just don't get the complete lack of respect accorded the Aspers here.

There is a saying: “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish;
and you will not have to listen to his incessant whining about how hungry
he is.”—Author unknown

Where does anyone promise the world WILL BE CHANGED by the mere presence of this museum?

Are you suggesting by the mere act of driving (and funding) the museum that the Aspers don't care? Geeze. I just don't get the complete lack of respect accorded the Aspers here.

There is a saying: “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”—Author unknown

Why are you so hung up on giving the Askers respect? One gains respect and I know of nothing that was done that earns my respect.

Why are you so disrespectful? Rhetorical questions jimmy. I would think that when people live in a civilized society they show respect to others. Especially when others intentions are honourable.

grumpy old man wrote:Are you suggesting by the mere act of driving (and funding) the museum that the Aspers don't care? Geeze. I just don't get the complete lack of respect accorded the Aspers here.

How would you characterize the respect for the taxpayers that the Aspers have shown? Not asking us if we're on side with their idea. Refusing to appear at even a single press conference to respond to reporters' questions on behalf of the public. Not asking us if the public would allow the museum to be built at the Fork. Not explaining why their attendance figures have dropped from 800,000 to 250,000 in two years, and 100,000 to 20,000 for students visits. What's the impact of these dramatically smaller figures? When will they come begging for more than $22 million in funding in order to keep the doors open?
Talk about contempt for the taxpayer and public at large.

Meh. Whatever.

grumpy old man wrote:Why are you so disrespectful? Rhetorical questions jimmy. I would think that when people live in a civilized society they show respect to others. Especially when others intentions are honourable.

Well.. always answering by rephrasing my questions shows you've come to a gun fight with a dull knife eh.

grumpy old man wrote:Meh. Whatever.

Weak.

Was it Jackie Gleason who said... "It can't hurt!"?

White elephants always hurt...