proposed Youth For Christ $9-million youth centre

^
WTF has that got to do with it?

Are you saying that three or twenty wrongs make it right?

Government shouldn't be funding $75,000 picnic tables while leaving its' citizens starving and homeless.

I would think that those are easy dots to connect.

JTF wrote:I'm familiar with them.

Shouldn't the government be providing proper shelter to its citizens?

no.

I agree that government is too into too many things, but I really don't see turning off the tap all at once. Unfortunately, we, as in all of us collectively, are too addicted to things provided by the state. Start backing off, reduce the tax burden, then we'll have the cash to fund those things that we want to.

Miz point wrote:Help should never come with a caveat.....period. One helps their fellow man because they want to not because they have an agenda.

Unlike the incredibly reliable source of the anonymous caller to CJOB, I've never heard that YFC has tried to jam their beliefs on anyone that goes there.

Miz point wrote:I say we build a colisseum and bring back the gladiators!!!!

I'm up for that. Can we get a government grant to build it?

I have this thing for gladiators today....must be the warm weather. We could get some lions and it wouldn't cost anything to feed them either.

Freeman wrote:

Miz point wrote:Help should never come with a caveat.....period. One helps their fellow man because they want to not because they have an agenda.

Unlike the incredibly reliable source of the anonymous caller to CJOB, I've never heard that YFC has tried to jam their beliefs on anyone that goes there.

If YFC does not engage in preachy crap then bring it on.....

Miz point wrote:I have this thing for gladiators today....must be the warm weather. We could get some lions and it wouldn't cost anything to feed them either.

Watching Russell Crowe movies again?

Freeman wrote:

Miz point wrote:Help should never come with a caveat.....period. One helps their fellow man because they want to not because they have an agenda.

Unlike the incredibly reliable source of the anonymous caller to CJOB, I've never heard that YFC has tried to jam their beliefs on anyone that goes there.

Its a typical tactic used by those opposed to ANY faith based initiative. I have heard it about homeless shelters, food banks, youth programs, shoebox programs... the format is always the same. I goes something like...

"I have heard from a friend that...

- Siloam Mission
- Salvation Army
- Lighthouse Mission
- Church Food Bank
- Youth For Christ
- Operation Christmas Child
-

... won't give ...

- a warm meal
- a place to sleep
- an opportunity to get off the streets
- any work training
- groceries
- an opportunity to partake in recreational activities
- counselling
- shoebox full of presents

... to anyone that doesn't...

- first listen to a sermon
- give 10% of their T4 reported income
- give their life to Jesus/Allah/Buddah
- be baptized
- pray for their sins
- stop listening to evil rock music
- convert and become a hetrosexual

... and that's why I think they shouldn't be given money."

Freeman wrote:

Miz point wrote:I have this thing for gladiators today....must be the warm weather. We could get some lions and it wouldn't cost anything to feed them either.

Watching Russell Crowe movies again?

Hahahah....nah, I was engaging in free association vis a vis - Christians, lions, gladiators......

tis true about the meal......

you know.. because its traditional to PRAY at mealtime so they GASP!!! have someone lead a prayer to which people OH MY GOD!!!! have to either listen to or plug their ears.

Miz point wrote:

Freeman wrote:

Miz point wrote:I have this thing for gladiators today....must be the warm weather. We could get some lions and it wouldn't cost anything to feed them either.

Watching Russell Crowe movies again?

Hahahah....nah, I was engaging in free association vis a vis - Christians, lions, gladiators......

And we all know how powerful the Roman Empire is today... oh... wait...

Yeah lets trash this offer to provide. The lost souls will just have to continue praying for their next meal/clothing/shoes/shelter.

Deank wrote:tis true about the meal......

you know.. because its traditional to PRAY at mealtime so they GASP!!! have someone lead a prayer to which people OH MY GOD!!!! have to either listen to or plug their ears.

I was involved in a local organization, which was basically a soup kitchen and it had strong ties to the church. My involvement had nothing to do with the church and lets just say that I don't actively participate in any faith. At one board meeting, it was brought up that those attending should pray before meals, and it was vocally dismissed, as, in spite of our Christian ties, it was "us" that were performing a Christian act. The strongest opposition to the idea came from the Minister of one of the churches that we were involved with.

sputnik wrote:

Its a typical tactic used by those opposed to ANY faith based initiative.

As opposed to the tactic of shooting the messanger?

In any event...for those sanctimonious freaks...religious groups haven't had a really good record dealing with kids....think about the Anglican and Catholic priests a bit...and more recently the dude from the Shaloam Mission went astray.

Just say'n.

But I am opposed on the political/philosophical level and not opposed to religious groups themselves. I don't care who is doing it.

JTF wrote:

sputnik wrote:

Its a typical tactic used by those opposed to ANY faith based initiative.

As opposed to the tactic of shooting the messanger?

It's not shooting the messenger. It is using logical reasoning to determine if there is any weight behind the claims presented.

It's no different than the people convinced the NHL is coming to Winnipeg next season. Talk to a large group of Winnipeggers and you will have people that are certain that it is a done deal. However there is no proof or even and indication that it is the case. So what makes it true? The fact that you read it on the Internet?

The same goes for the claims against any religious based charity or organization.

Freeman wrote:

Deank wrote:"
There used to be a time when almost ALL of the hospitals, food banks, shelters, orphanages and other humanitarian efforts were led by religious groups. It was only within the last 60-70 years where the government started to help out in that regard."

Two (or is it three) of our hospitals are still religous basedish. Guess we should just stop funding them and build new ones though.

St Boniface Hospital started and operated by the Grey Nuns, Grace Hospital = Salvation Army. Good point.

Neither one is now run by the starting groups. Both are WRHA facilities now.

WRHA facilities run by people who have "the faith"

Deank wrote:WRHA facilities run by people who have "the faith"

I believe the Grey Nuns still own the facility.

I seem to recall reading something last year about that. Cant find it though.

It is possible the St. B is still an independent Catholic facility under contract to the WRHA. It is hard to determine from their web site.

The Salvation Army did turn over the Grace though.

http://www.saintboniface.ca/pop_storyEng.html
Here is a pop up you can get from the front page of the St B website. It is still run as a Catholic based facility. I work for a company who does a lot of work for all of the WRHA facilities and yes Grace is no longer carrying the Salvation Army name but St B is still faith based in some aspects although not all.

sputnik wrote:

JTF wrote:

sputnik wrote:

Its a typical tactic used by those opposed to ANY faith based initiative.

As opposed to the tactic of shooting the messanger?

It's not shooting the messenger. It is using logical reasoning to determine if there is any weight behind the claims presented.

It's no different than the people convinced the NHL is coming to Winnipeg next season. Talk to a large group of Winnipeggers and you will have people that are certain that it is a done deal. However there is no proof or even and indication that it is the case. So what makes it true? The fact that you read it on the Internet?

The same goes for the claims against any religious based charity or organization.

Nonsense.

You implied that because the caller to'OB was anonymous (like all are) his experience was not credible.

That's shooting the messenger anyway you cut it....a nd a cop-out to the issue raised.

If this operation is there to save souls, let them say so up-front. If it is there to help people, then lay off the preaching I say.

But one and the same can work many have been saved and helped , they do not force you to believe

Add to that if the kid or adult comes to know who ever is that all bad . In this demoralised society of ours should we not applaud someone teaching morals .
Probably not as that go,s against their right to be a good person and of course their right of choice . They have the right to choose to be a gang member and or the right to be an unemployed drop out . Have they right to be born to useless parents , probably not cause that is against the parents rights not to be called useless as it causes them hardship.
Most of the kids who will follow the teachings of this group will probably do so because it feels good to be doing better then they were last week . We as a society and as the do gooders who have created and allowed this mess to formulate . Should applaud any one who can safe some of the kids on those streets we have allowed to take hold

Pavolo wrote:But one and the same can work many have been saved and helped , they do not force you to believe

Apparently, they force you to listen.

If they want to do that, let them pay for the place themselves.

Since when have we started to pay for the building of religious structures?