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the winnipeg sandbox » winnipeg sports... » other sports discussion... » NHL Rumours... The NHL is returning to Winnipeg

NHL Rumours... The NHL is returning to Winnipeg

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Outsider


contributor plus
contributor plus

St Norberter wrote:
JTF wrote:Isn't the MTS Center successful because of all the various shows, besides hockey, that are put on there?

If hockey replaced some of the other shows, would it continue to be so successful?

....somehow I doubt it....the dynamics would change completely.

Your assumption is false. The MTS Center houses a professional hockey team which plays approx the same number of games as an NHL team. The only change might be to the start and end dates of the season and I think that would be negligible.

You might have a point if the Moose played an abbreviated (e.g. 20 home game) schedule.

He is actually correct.
The dynamics will change.
The number 1 dynamic is the average cost per ticket in the AHL and the NHL is very different.
And that is where the rubber hits the road.
Just because a person has season tickets to the Moose does not mean that same person will have season tickets to see the NHL.

And they are getting about 8,000 customers on any given night to watch the Moose.
That is a long way from the 15,000 they will need for an NHL team.
And people can say what they want about the Commissioner of the NHL. But he knows how to count butts in the seats.
And PAYING butts in the seats is needed to pay $57,000,000 in annual NHL salaries.

And if you think a NHL team in Winnipeg will have much less than a $57,000,000 team salary, you are kidding yourself.
Winnipeggers will not support a team which is not competitive.

And I am pretty sure NHL players are paid in US dollars.
Which is not too bad right now.
But if or when Canada goes to a $.70 dollar, a Winnipeg NHL team might be in trouble.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Why compare Meese attendance to an NHL team? Do you believe the comparison is a one-to-one comp?

If so, how so? If not, then the point is moot.

Where did you see anyone here suggest an NHL team in Winnipeg will pay less in salaries than the league imposed standards?

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

I'd bet dollars to donuts most Meese season ticket holders will buy seasons to an NHL team. I'm also willing to bet many who would never buy seasons to the Meese (me for instance) would jump all over NHL seasons.

I'm also willing to bet most peeps buying a private box will buy an NHL private box. The new owners are not idiots. They see the boxes are sold out for the Meese. They won't have empty boxes sitting there that were full before.

I'll also restate my earlier comment: the new owners will need a full house every night or the team will be at risk.



Last edited by grumpy old man on Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Triniman

Triniman
general-contributor
general-contributor

That's why a lot of pro team owners are multi-millionaires or billionaires. They can afford to lose money and just write it off on their taxes.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Tell that to Shenkarow or how about Pocklington or Gillette , not so under tax laws here, states maybe . And there are alot of money people getting out of sports teams especially Hockey as things like soccer are becoming much bigger.
I thought I read where more kids are enrolling in it then Hockey

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Well maybe soccer will be number one in another 50 years in Canada. Maybe 100 years. But hockey is still king here and will be for many generations.

Meh. Who cares about soccer? They are having one heck of a time making it meaningful to North Americans.

Ummm, business losses are tax deductible here as well. What precisely are you referring to pav?

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Not all of the money lost in a sport franchise is deductable as it is in the states as I once was told by a accountant at the lake in this disscussion on the dock .

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

grumpy old man wrote:
I'll also restate my earlier comment: the new owners will need a full house every night or the team will be at risk.

Good Post!

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Any accountants out there? How much tax will a business pay when they lose money? What impact do business losses have on an individual's tax?

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

From another forum... Average annual lease price for luxury suites in National Hockey League -- $77,000

It seems there are 60~ boxes sold @ $60k~ for the Moose with 91 companies on a waiting list.

Hmmmm. Maybe the NHL returning to Winnipeg is not so far-fetched...

St Norberter

St Norberter
major-contributor
major-contributor

Outsider wrote:
St Norberter wrote:
JTF wrote:Isn't the MTS Center successful because of all the various shows, besides hockey, that are put on there?

If hockey replaced some of the other shows, would it continue to be so successful?

....somehow I doubt it....the dynamics would change completely.

Your assumption is false. The MTS Center houses a professional hockey team which plays approx the same number of games as an NHL team. The only change might be to the start and end dates of the season and I think that would be negligible.

You might have a point if the Moose played an abbreviated (e.g. 20 home game) schedule.

He is actually correct.
The dynamics will change.
The number 1 dynamic is the average cost per ticket in the AHL and the NHL is very different.
And that is where the rubber hits the road.
Just because a person has season tickets to the Moose does not mean that same person will have season tickets to see the NHL.

And they are getting about 8,000 customers on any given night to watch the Moose.
That is a long way from the 15,000 they will need for an NHL team.
And people can say what they want about the Commissioner of the NHL. But he knows how to count butts in the seats.
And PAYING butts in the seats is needed to pay $57,000,000 in annual NHL salaries.

And if you think a NHL team in Winnipeg will have much less than a $57,000,000 team salary, you are kidding yourself.
Winnipeggers will not support a team which is not competitive.

And I am pretty sure NHL players are paid in US dollars.
Which is not too bad right now.
But if or when Canada goes to a $.70 dollar, a Winnipeg NHL team might be in trouble.

But that's not what the post implied. The post implied that an NHL tea would take more dates which would lead to a decreased number of concerts, etc.

Which wouldn't be the case simply from replacing the Moose with an NHL team.

http://bgilchrist.wordpress.com/

St Norberter

St Norberter
major-contributor
major-contributor

grumpy old man wrote:Any accountants out there? How much tax will a business pay when they lose money? What impact do business losses have on an individual's tax?

The short answer without knowing all the details....

$0

and

none

http://bgilchrist.wordpress.com/

death128

death128
contributor
contributor

St Norberter wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Any accountants out there? How much tax will a business pay when they lose money? What impact do business losses have on an individual's tax?

The short answer without knowing all the details....

$0

and

none

But if THE business is under the umbrella of another business...

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

I think something that some people might be missing here.

The mooseplex. What is it?

Why its just a 4 rink revenue that will have a substantial training room designed specifically for training hockey players. You know something that a professional hockey team would need.. especially when their main training ice is used up so often by concerts and such.

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

St Norberter wrote:
Outsider wrote:
St Norberter wrote:
JTF wrote:Isn't the MTS Center successful because of all the various shows, besides hockey, that are put on there?

If hockey replaced some of the other shows, would it continue to be so successful?

....somehow I doubt it....the dynamics would change completely.

Your assumption is false. The MTS Center houses a professional hockey team which plays approx the same number of games as an NHL team. The only change might be to the start and end dates of the season and I think that would be negligible.

You might have a point if the Moose played an abbreviated (e.g. 20 home game) schedule.

He is actually correct.
The dynamics will change.
The number 1 dynamic is the average cost per ticket in the AHL and the NHL is very different.
And that is where the rubber hits the road.
Just because a person has season tickets to the Moose does not mean that same person will have season tickets to see the NHL.

And they are getting about 8,000 customers on any given night to watch the Moose.
That is a long way from the 15,000 they will need for an NHL team.
And people can say what they want about the Commissioner of the NHL. But he knows how to count butts in the seats.
And PAYING butts in the seats is needed to pay $57,000,000 in annual NHL salaries.

And if you think a NHL team in Winnipeg will have much less than a $57,000,000 team salary, you are kidding yourself.
Winnipeggers will not support a team which is not competitive.

And I am pretty sure NHL players are paid in US dollars.
Which is not too bad right now.
But if or when Canada goes to a $.70 dollar, a Winnipeg NHL team might be in trouble.

But that's not what the post implied. The post implied that an NHL tea would take more dates which would lead to a decreased number of concerts, etc.

Which wouldn't be the case simply from replacing the Moose with an NHL team.

I was responding to the comment about "changing dynamics".
Although the number of dates would not change if the AHL was replaced by the NHL, the ticket prices would definitely change.

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

St Norberter wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Any accountants out there? How much tax will a business pay when they lose money? What impact do business losses have on an individual's tax?

The short answer without knowing all the details....

$0

and

none

Speaking of taxes, was there some sort of "operating loss agreement" between the old Jets owners and the city and / or province in the last few years before the Jets left for Phoenix?
Does anyone remember how that worked out?
I have been looking around on the internet and the figures vary greatly.

Thanks

St Norberter

St Norberter
major-contributor
major-contributor

Outsider wrote:
St Norberter wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Any accountants out there? How much tax will a business pay when they lose money? What impact do business losses have on an individual's tax?

The short answer without knowing all the details....

$0

and

none

Speaking of taxes, was there some sort of "operating loss agreement" between the old Jets owners and the city and / or province in the last few years before the Jets left for Phoenix?
Does anyone remember how that worked out?
I have been looking around on the internet and the figures vary greatly.

Thanks

Can't remember the exact #s, but the province agreed to cover the team's operating losses for the last two years they were here.

http://bgilchrist.wordpress.com/

Triniman

Triniman
general-contributor
general-contributor

Government shouldn't be in the pro-sports business.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Governments should not be building football stadiums. Governments ought not be in the concert business either.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

grumpy old man wrote:Well maybe soccer will be number one in another 50 years in Canada. Maybe 100 years. But hockey is still king here and will be for many generations.

Meh. Who cares about soccer? They are having one heck of a time making it meaningful to North Americans.

Ummm, business losses are tax deductible here as well. What precisely are you referring to pav?

Take a look at your local soccer pitch and tell me 50 years , main reason is because it is less expensive for kids to play and less violence . They are building more pitches then rinks right now .

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Take a look at your hockey arenas and playgrounds and streets and backyards and tell me soccer is king. Go ahead and play soccer at -40...

Take a look at your professional sports leagues and tell me how many Canadians are playing profession soccer versus hockey, football, baseball and basketball.

And we call them soccer fields here in Canada. And a one-nothing score is not called one-nil...

Heh heh

Yeah, soccer is increasingly played by our kids. As is basketball. Because they are relatively inexpensive to play. But hockey is still king. And I believe it will be 50 years down the road. And one hundred years down the road...

Canadians simply have not embraced soccer.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

I never said it was number 1 just that it gaining ground fast as it is all over the world . It is a bit slow for my liking but each their own .
Have you recently looked at the European Leagues make the NHL envious for their steady draw of people . It is all in the marketing

198NHL Rumours... The NHL is returning to Winnipeg - Page 8 Empty Thrashers are moving to Winnipeg Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:40 pm

usedtoliveinstb

usedtoliveinstb
newbie

From National Newswatch:


  • NNW TIPSTER REPORTS: Winnipeg to get NHL Team
    1. The Chipman Group (who own the Manitoba Moose) along with the Thomson
    Group (co-owner of the MTS Centre) and a 3rd silent partner have purchased
    the Atlanta Thrashers
  • 2. The press conference is March 4th (the day after the NHL trade deadline)
  • 3. The Manitoba Moose will be heading to Saskatoon

usedtoliveinstb

usedtoliveinstb
newbie

...but can Winnipeggers afford NHL ticket prices?

Ex:
http://senators.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=49391 (most games are "bronze")

Jondo

Jondo
major-contributor
major-contributor

The NHL is coming back to Earth (and Winnipeg). We will pay still-high prices next year and then market-hunrgy (modest) prices into the future.

FlyingRat

FlyingRat
moderator
moderator

(Thread moved to sports)

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