Church

Goth_chic wrote:We are going to check out Calvary Temple as well as Springs Church. I want to know if they really ask to see a copy of your tax return...we plan on checking out a few of the others that were recommended. Thanks to the sandbox for your help!!!

Here is the deal about Springs Church that many are afraid to talk about...

They are generally a protestant evangelical church like the rest of them. However they seem to have added a bit of "The Secret" into their belief system that isnt exactly biblical.

Pastor Leon preaches that if you have enough faith in God that your faith will result in being rewarded by God with good health and wealth. Hence the "health and wealth" gospel that you may hear about from time to time. However they also preach that the opposite is true in that if you have little faith your life will be miserable and you won't reach your full potential.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_Gospel

As for the money side of things... I question if the claims that they want to see your T4 is actually true and I honestly doubt it is. However they certainly do preach that giving large portions of your income is a good way to "prove" you faith to God. This is the reason that Leon can justify living in a big house, he can just say that he is VERY faithful and God is blessing him.

People tend to flock to churches like that because they get to hear about how they can benefit from the religion.

Unfortunately those who should truly benefit are those that you help as a result of your faith and belief.

Berean Baptist Church
225 Sutton
338 3580

DeanK please remove that name as it is the personal number of the pastor

Goth_chic wrote:We are going to check out Calvary Temple as well as Springs Church. I want to know if they really ask to see a copy of your tax return...we plan on checking out a few of the others that were recommended. Thanks to the sandbox for your help!!!

Another place you might want to check out is Riverwood.

Its a pretty casual church in Elmwood that does quite a bit for the surrounding community.

http://www.riverwood.cc

rosencrentz wrote:I know well about perpetual sofas! lol

Heh...ya' wanna be a Bishop?

Seriously, I'll get a certificate made up. (My daughter's a graphic artist)

St Norberter wrote:Heh!

Now ya got me thinking if we have ever met!

Great minds think alike and fools..............well you know the rest. PM me and we can compare.....

sputnik wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:We are going to check out Calvary Temple as well as Springs Church. I want to know if they really ask to see a copy of your tax return...we plan on checking out a few of the others that were recommended. Thanks to the sandbox for your help!!!

Here is the deal about Springs Church that many are afraid to talk about...

They are generally a protestant evangelical church like the rest of them. However they seem to have added a bit of "The Secret" into their belief system that isnt exactly biblical.

Pastor Leon preaches that if you have enough faith in God that your faith will result in being rewarded by God with good health and wealth. Hence the "health and wealth" gospel that you may hear about from time to time. However they also preach that the opposite is true in that if you have little faith your life will be miserable and you won't reach your full potential.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_Gospel

As for the money side of things... I question if the claims that they want to see your T4 is actually true and I honestly doubt it is. However they certainly do preach that giving large portions of your income is a good way to "prove" you faith to God. This is the reason that Leon can justify living in a big house, he can just say that he is VERY faithful and God is blessing him.

People tend to flock to churches like that because they get to hear about how they can benefit from the religion.

Unfortunately those who should truly benefit are those that you help as a result of your faith and belief.

I've heard stories about people getting sick and when visited in the hospital by pastor Leon, he told them the reason they were in the hospital was because they didn't give enough to Springs Church.

Pastor Leon is a scammer methinks...a fraudster...a charlatan.

A sucker is born (again) every minute, as the saying goes I guess. lol

Stay away from those jerkoffs and join our church...we'll have a sofa waiting.

JTF wrote:Pastor Leon is a scammer methinks...a fraudster...a charlatan.

A sucker is born (again) every minute, as the saying goes I guess. lol

Stay away from those jerkoffs and join our church...we'll have a sofa waiting.

I heard that his father was the real power of Springs Church until he passed away a few years ago. Now this is just second hand info, so take it as you wish, but I had heard that Leon's father was the one who was more interested in helping people and doing things for the community. Leon would often consult with him on church related matters.

After his passing, Leon apparently let his love of the finer things in life get to him (money, cars, expensive trips, mansions, etc.). Since that time, Springs has gone downhill in terms of church morale and helping the underprivileged.

A certain pastor from a church I won't name told a friend's grandmother NOT to undergo any more chemotherapy. As her 'prayer warrior', he decided that God had decided that she had endured enough suffering.

Methinks he was just ready to get a look at how much she was leaving them in her will, and that's plain wrong.

Goth_chic wrote:We are going to check out Calvary Temple as well as Springs Church. I want to know if they really ask to see a copy of your tax return...we plan on checking out a few of the others that were recommended. Thanks to the sandbox for your help!!!

I never cared for Springs Church. Went there a couple of times in 2004, and just was not a good fit.

I attended Calvary Temple for about 18 months, when pastor Gerry was in charge of the Young Adult group. Now the main Church demographic seems to be composed of mainly seniors (60+), and I believe one of the reasons Pastor Gerry left, and created his own church was that Calvary Temple was not willing to change with the times.

I'm not saying that is exactly a bad thing, but there are very few people there that bring families (30-40 somethings with children).

Mantha wrote:A certain pastor from a church I won't name told a friend's grandmother NOT to undergo any more chemotherapy. As her 'prayer warrior', he decided that God had decided that she had endured enough suffering.

Methinks he was just ready to get a look at how much she was leaving them in her will, and that's plain wrong.

Can you give us a hint as to who the pastor was....

St Norberter wrote:

Deank wrote:

St Norberter wrote:Yeah - service size I think is an important issue.

Calvary is big. I've heard the Springs church wants to see your tax return so they can calculate how much you must give to be a member there.

not sure about them, but several churches still Tithe, some do it on gross, some on net, regardless giving up 10% of your income can be very difficult sometimes.

Most are voluntary. Most that expect a certain percentage of your income let you calculate it.

Springs is the only one I know of that demands to see your tax return.

I attend Springs, and this is not true. I have been attending there for over 5 years and no one has ever asked to see our tax return. I have no idea how these rumors get started. I can't believe that people would actually believe something so silly.

sputnik wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:We are going to check out Calvary Temple as well as Springs Church. I want to know if they really ask to see a copy of your tax return...we plan on checking out a few of the others that were recommended. Thanks to the sandbox for your help!!!

Here is the deal about Springs Church that many are afraid to talk about...

They are generally a protestant evangelical church like the rest of them. However they seem to have added a bit of "The Secret" into their belief system that isnt exactly biblical.

Pastor Leon preaches that if you have enough faith in God that your faith will result in being rewarded by God with good health and wealth. Hence the "health and wealth" gospel that you may hear about from time to time. However they also preach that the opposite is true in that if you have little faith your life will be miserable and you won't reach your full potential.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_Gospel

As for the money side of things... I question if the claims that they want to see your T4 is actually true and I honestly doubt it is. However they certainly do preach that giving large portions of your income is a good way to "prove" you faith to God. This is the reason that Leon can justify living in a big house, he can just say that he is VERY faithful and God is blessing him.

People tend to flock to churches like that because they get to hear about how they can benefit from the religion.

Unfortunately those who should truly benefit are those that you help as a result of your faith and belief.

Actually you are a bit off. It's not actually like that. Wiki isn't the most relaible source either. He also preaches about how to have healthy relationships with family etc. His Sunday morning messages are seeker friendly. Focuses on the practical application of applying spiritual truths.

Isn't there something about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man? Why does Leon live in a huge house? Wouldn't he be better to live more modestly and give some more of his excess wealth to the poor?

What would Christ do?

magically create whatever he needed for food and drink and live in houses of the people "under" him... usually richer people with bigger houses that could handle his entire entarouge

Triniman wrote:Isn't there something about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man? Why does Leon live in a huge house? Wouldn't he be better to live more modestly and give some more of his excess wealth to the poor?

What would Christ do?

You have no idea how much he contributes to the poor. And why this idea that christains hvae to live like they are poor? I've never understood that attitude.

No one says they should live like they are poor....

Libermom, in order to become a member of Springs do you have to give something every month or not?

libermom wrote:

Triniman wrote:Isn't there something about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man? Why does Leon live in a huge house? Wouldn't he be better to live more modestly and give some more of his excess wealth to the poor?

What would Christ do?

You have no idea how much he contributes to the poor. And why this idea that christains hvae to live like they are poor? I've never understood that attitude.

There is nothing wrong with being wealthy, it only becomes a problem when you worship your wealth and possessions over God. Exploiting others for one's gain is also not good.

Leon lives in a huge house, and he has a second huge house in BC. How does he afford this? I guess the 200k salary he receives from his church pays for this. How can his church afford this?

I have spoke to a member of his church and here is how the scam goes.
members who net less than $50k a year must pay 10% gross to the church and donate a certain amount of their time working for the church (which is not paid). Members who gross more than 50K a year must pay 20% gross, of their yearly income to the church, and donate some time working for the church.

The more you give to the church, the more god loves you. (this is their belief)

with all due respect LD... thats not a scam. IF true, the people who attend that church (and are presumably not forced with guns to attend the church) are aware of the process.

Scamming usually means someone is not aware of whats happening.

Deank wrote:with all due respect LD... thats not a scam. IF true, the people who attend that church (and are presumably not forced with guns to attend the church) are aware of the process.

Scamming usually means someone is not aware of whats happening.

Dean. I feel it is a scam, therefore I reserve the right to call it a scam. IMHO most organized religions prey upon people's fears of the unknown in order to advance their cause. In the case of the church we are discussing, to be a member of this sect of Christianity you must pay. Even though these people know what is going on, they are still being scammed.

Like you said above "Scamming usually means someone is not aware of what is happening." Usually but not always. A lot of very intelligent people get scammed and are aware of what is happening but believe it will bring them greater rewards.

Triniman wrote:Isn't there something about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man? Why does Leon live in a huge house? Wouldn't he be better to live more modestly and give some more of his excess wealth to the poor?

What would Christ do?

Some history behind that quote.

The "Eye Of The Needle" refers to a small entrance through a fortified city wall where supplies could get in during times of war without having to open the main gates and risk attack. In the case of a camel, in order for the camel to get through the door with a full load it had unload what it was carrying and get down on its knees and crawl through the gates to enter.

In the same way. For a rich man to enter heaven he must be willing drop what he is carrying (his personal wealth) and humble himself (on his knees).

Rich people can go to heaven. They just need to be willing to part with their material wealth and humble themselves.

libermom wrote:Actually you are a bit off. It's not actually like that. Wiki isn't the most relaible source either. He also preaches about how to have healthy relationships with family etc. His Sunday morning messages are seeker friendly. Focuses on the practical application of applying spiritual truths.

Of course he ALSO preaches about other things. People would probably get bored hearing the same sermon over and over again.

However the teaching that if you have faith or give more money to the church that God in turn will bless you with more wealth and health is complete heresy.

The thing I find interesting about Springs is that they do not state what they believe on their website.

99.99999% of church websites have a "statement of faith" describing what they as a church believe. Why doesn't Springs have that published online? You think it would be an important part of their website.

Goth_chic wrote:No one says they should live like they are poor....

Libermom, in order to become a member of Springs do you have to give something every month or not?

No you don't.

libermom wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:No one says they should live like they are poor....

Libermom, in order to become a member of Springs do you have to give something every month or not?

No you don't.

That's all I wanted to know. Thanks

libermom wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:No one says they should live like they are poor....

Libermom, in order to become a member of Springs do you have to give something every month or not?

No you don't.

Are you a member of the Springs church? Or were you a past member?

I hear a different story when I speak to a co-worker who is a long time current member of the Springs church.