Church

sputnik wrote:

libermom wrote:

sputnik wrote:

libermom wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:

sputnik wrote:

libermom wrote:The other house is in Calgary, not BC. He flies back and forth because he pastors a church in Calgary as well. I would imagine it's probably easier to live in a house than a hotel room evey week.

The house he bought in Calgary is assessed at over $1.5 million.

Yikes...I guess being a minister or pastor pays well...who knew?

Depends on how big your church is. The bigger the church, the bigger the responibility, the bigger the salary. Most churches aren't that big to afford a salary that large.

Garbage.

I went to a church in Calgary that had 2500-3000 people every weekend. The lead pastor lives in a house smaller than mine and drives a Toyota.

I also know how much he makes on a yearly basis because the salaries and benefits of all staff are made public to the entire membership of the church. The members giving have every right to know where EVERY PENNY of their giving is going.

Try asking for that information from Springs.

You are right, members do have a right to know where their money is going. So you actually saw Leon's salary did you? As for the other pastor, just b/c he lives in a small house it doesn't mean that he isn't paid well. Warren Buffet lives in a modest house, he just invests his money elsewhere. Myself, personally, I decided years ago not to expect the pastors have to live poor, modestly, or wealthy. If laws are not being broken, etc, the members aren't complaining,etc it's up to individual people to live how the see fit. If it's ever found out that Leon has not lived above reproach well then he has alot to answer for. In the meantime I will give him the benfit of the doubt until there is proof otherwise and not just rumors. I think most people think that pastors aren't supposed to show wealth b/c if they do, they must be doing something underhanded. Of course I think in general most of society has a problem with people showing off their wealth, be they Christian or not.

I know what my former pastor makes.

Including what he gets in terms of his car allowance and educational allowance.

Every dollar given to the church is detailed in the annual report each year and handed to all members.

Try getting a detailed financial report from Spring Canada Inc and you will be shown the door.

Bottom line for me,... is not that I don't care to know, it's more of a non-issue for me. I don't begrudge the man what he makes or how he lives. In the end he is accountable for his actions, not me.

libermom wrote:Bottom line for me,... is not that I don't care to know, it's more of a non-issue for me. I don't begrudge the man what he makes or how he lives. In the end he is accountable for his actions, not me.

It is a free country and you are willing to do as you please.

However it is also a free country and I am free to express my concerns about the Spring Corporation and its CEO Leon Fontaine.

Doesn't anyone else find it odd that the Springs Church is a trademarked brand for the corporation owned by Leon and his wife? Don't you find that a bit odd for a church? Does Leon and his wife OWN the church?

Most churches operate without a CEO but rather with a board of directors (which are elected by members) and a congregation with a common vote and access to all relevant financial information.

"Most churches operate without a CEO but rather with a board of directors (which are elected by members) and a congregation with a common vote and access to all relevant financial information."

I would not say MOST churches operate that way. Alot, yes definately but most? Not sure


"Doesn't anyone else find it odd that the Springs Church is a trademarked brand for the corporation owned by Leon and his wife"

Happens quite alot actually. but not by any means the norm

If the pastor is a scammer, don't you have a duty to alert people? If he is using God to "sell indulgences" people should be told.

sputnik wrote:

libermom wrote:Bottom line for me,... is not that I don't care to know, it's more of a non-issue for me. I don't begrudge the man what he makes or how he lives. In the end he is accountable for his actions, not me.

It is a free country and you are willing to do as you please.

However it is also a free country and I am free to express my concerns about the Spring Corporation and its CEO Leon Fontaine.

Doesn't anyone else find it odd that the Springs Church is a trademarked brand for the corporation owned by Leon and his wife? Don't you find that a bit odd for a church? Does Leon and his wife OWN the church?

Most churches operate without a CEO but rather with a board of directors (which are elected by members) and a congregation with a common vote and access to all relevant financial information.

I really can't comment on this as I know nothing about it. I assume there is a board in place. If there isn't I wouldn't know when the church decided to cease having a board. It could be before my time. If the majority of the church wasn't agreeable to the current structure of the church as you assert it is, I would imagine it would have caused a split. If a split hadn't occured, I can only assume that the majority of the people did not have a problem with it. If it wasn't done above board, well nothing like that stays hidden forever, so I would say his chickens will come home to roost at some point in time.

Wow...quite the discussion...especially the assumptions going on.

Figured I'd throw some assumptions in too:
I'll assume if there are big houses the pastor of Springs lives in...that it's possible he doesn't own them. The church may own them to be used by/for the Pastor. Or he leases them from the church.

Who cares how much a pastor makes? All a pastor REALLY is, is a public speaker. GOOD public speakers can make $10k PER APPEARANCE...so the church would be saving money having one on salary for $200k.

I'll speak from MY background...one which I AM familiar with, and will make no assumptions.

In the church I grew up in (VERY active till I was about 20)...the "pastor" was a volunteer. Paid no salary, but given a small stipend to offset expenses like gas, travel, etc.
Those within the church with responsibility were also all volunteers, whether they taught Sunday School, Bible Study, Youth Activities, Scout Leaders, etc.
The church asked for a tithe (recommended 10%), but there were NO repercussions for non-payment. It reflected in the "reap/sow" philosophy...but did not REQUIRE anything.
The church is VERY private when it comes to finances...though it's known the value of the church is HUGE, primarily from property ownership around the world.

At one point, it was the fastest growing church in the WORLD...and is still in the top 5 for growth.
Last time I checked, it was also one of the top 5 for membership WORLDWIDE.

Personally...I'd say it's one of the best in the world...and I've been inactive for nearly 20 years now.

But it's not for everyone...and its beliefs are questioned by many...but if you're willing to believe...and participate...it can be a PHENOMENAL environment for family and education.

If we play our cards right, The Lady of Perpetual Sofas can be in the top three within 5 years.

Ummmm,please don't forget that I am the pastor of The Lady of Perpetual Sofas. Please begin sending me 15% of your salary.

Hmmm. There's that old saying, something about a fool and his money being parted...

Also, the Top 100 Fastest growing churches in the world.

Regarding Springs Church, it is absolutely false to say they ask to see your income tax form !! That ridiculous rumour has been floating on and off for years.. and I can tell you first hand, after many yrs there, it is wrong. Who in his right mind would go to any church or other group if that was required ? Think, people. And no-one asks what you earn, where you work, if you smoke, drink, read your Bible, ..whatever. It's not different than any other church in that regard and in many other aspects. As to Pastor Leon, he works extremly hard, and has a ton of responsibities for which he is paid ( I don't know amt) similiarly to other mega churches in N.A. Don't let go of your common sense here. Yes it is sortof a prosperity church as one aspect of Bible teaching, but ppl there don't all hold that teaching to the same degree. Some maybe a bit more than they should, and so do a lot of non-church ppl. that I know. The ppl there are not perfect, and not stupid. It's a great church, but doesn't suit everyone. My 2 best friends go to smaller churches, we discuss stuff respectfully, and are on the same Bible believing faith 95 % of the time. Just as other churches/denominations do. You would do well to visit it yourself for a few times, check your Bible with the message, and make up your own mind. In decades of going to various churches, I've never found one that, after a while, one did not notice some stuff that you could disagree with, while appreciating most of it. Same here. Hebrews 10 says, go to church. Find one that suits you and that teaches the Bible. Blessings.

Regarding Springs, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I too never took the person who said you have to show your tax return to the Church seriously. However, I did not get the greatest impression of Springs Church when I was there, and I know several people who feel the same way.

"Who in his right mind would go to any church or other group if that was required ?"

many churches and people have no problem at all with this requirement.

We are going to go to Church this Sunday....haven't decided on which one yet. We may hit Calvary Temple and then got for dim sum after.

so worship one god then eat the food of another and provide him with worship too?

Goth_chic wrote:We are going to go to Church this Sunday....haven't decided on which one yet. We may hit Calvary Temple and then got for dim sum after.

Sounds like a good idea. The key to enjoying a larger church is to volunteer in any area of your choice, and then you get to make friendly acquaintances which makes the place feel much friendlier.