Gay Pride Parade

AGEsAces, good post! It was interesting to read your thoughts, and though I disagree on some points, it was respectully written.

One of my favourite signs at the parade was "Straight but not narrow."

If homosexuality is a choice, not genetic, why would anyone choose to be gay? What would be the advantage? There are gay dogs, cats, seagulls, etc. Do they choose to be gay too? I am pretty sure these people are genetically predisposed to homosexuality.

"What would be the advantage? "

you like that type of sex more? You like that physical body shape more? So you get what you want.

AGEsAces wrote:

Everyone has "tendencies" towards one gender or another. That's natural/biological. The same as some people enjoy tofu, and others prefer steak. But the CHOICE of acting on those tendencies is what determines whether you're gay/bi/hetero or vegetarian/meatatarian.

Most people who are SO discriminatory in either direction...hetero/homo are convinced of that through social interaction. The butch-dykes are convinced by all the others they hang out with that "men are evil" and "women have to stick together". The flamboyant "queens" all tell themselves they must support each other. And the hetero-homophobe is convinced that "gay is evil" because of their background and upbringing.

HurtinAlbertan I liked Ages comments. I do also believe that it's a tendency, a personal preference, not necessarily something that is in their jeans....oops genes.

Okay i'm editing to clarify.....
I like steak over chicken. Always have, never known to be anything different. I prefer men to women, never known anything different. Somewhere when I was growing up I developed these preferences, it's not a choice for me to like steak more, or men more, I just do. I guess Steak = men and chicken = women.

love&hate wrote:HurtinAlbertan I liked Ages comments. I do also believe that it's a tendency, a personal preference, not necessarily something that is in their jeans....oops genes.

Okay i'm editing to clarify.....
I like steak over chicken. Always have, never known to be anything different. I prefer men to women, never known anything different. Somewhere when I was growing up I developed these preferences, it's not a choice for me to like steak more, or men more, I just do. I guess Steak = men and chicken = women.

Exactly.
I'm not saying people aren't born with genetic tendencies towards preferring male/female company. That's a given.
But the actual action upon them...THAT'S a choice.
I could say up and down that I prefer steak & hamburger...but if Tofu is put in front of me...does it mean I won't eat? possibly...though probably not...does that make ME a "vegetarian"? no...not at all.

Now...to ask yourself why they would "choose" to be gay? Some do it out of rebellion. Rebellion from their parents, their religion, their society. Some choose it out of curiosity...and find that it's something they prefer. Some choose it out of comfort...the fact that they are uncomfortable, or had bad experiences with the opposite sex.

BEING gay, is a choice...whether unpopular or not.

I have a great friend who, if you were to meet him, you would SWEAR up and down that he's gay. He dresses well, speaks intelligently, cooks superbly, even speaks with a higher-pitched effeminate tone. But I can assure you he's definitely NOT gay...and will defend that vehemently.

Now...had he grown up in a different environment (non-Italian...more sisters), there's a good chance he may have embraced an even more feminine side of himself and chosen to be gay. Had he met some nice guy who was gay and "lead" him to a different relationship...then maybe things would be different.

What most people who oppose homosexuality forget...is that the morals & standards of today's society in the Western World, are mostly based upon Anglo-Christian beliefs. Ones which admonish those who would choose anything differently, and have therefore declared those things as "evil" or "satanic".
As "Western Society" evolves from that religious outlook, the beliefs and viewpoints will adjust accordingly.

Look back in history to the Greeks & Romans...where men had wives and mistresses. Where men also had confidants & servants who were men...who served more needs than just standing around sharing a beer. Where men would bathe together, and it meant nothing to be disrobed in a private/personal environment.

Today's standards, and especially our parents'/educators' influence is what determines where we stand on this issue. I read in a religious book once, that man's body (and women's too) should be covered, because man is naturally inhibited. If inhibition was a "natural" instinct...then why do children insist on taking their clothes off...and have no second thought to running out in the street like a streaker? It's nothing sexual...just the lack of inhibition. That modesty is instilled in them by their parents & elders...and yet, many people still choose (as they age) to shed their clothing and bare all for anyone who cares to look.

According to your belief, AGEsAces, if being homosexual is a choice, then being heterosexual is a choice too. Am I following?

What causes a natural preference for homosexual relationships to exist? I know there are environmental influences, but you also say that there are natural preferences.

anny wrote:According to your belief, AGEsAces, if being homosexual is a choice, then being heterosexual is a choice too. Am I following?

What causes a natural preference for homosexual relationships to exist? I know there are environmental influences, but you also say that there are natural preferences.

Absolutely...being heterosexual IS a choice.
I choose to be heterosexual, because I prefer relations with a woman.

I could choose to be bisexual, or homosexual...but I don't.

The natural preferences would be the same as why some people prefer certain fragrances, or clothing. Why some prefer heavy metal music and some prefer country. It's a question of comfort, plain and simple.

For whatever reason, the relationship someone gets into is a choice. Look at those you may have dated over the years. Do you prefer blondes? or brunettes? Do you prefer large or skinny? These are all choices we make.

Can we tolerate being with something we wouldn't choose? Of course...many long marriages are based upon putting up with someone you would not choose. Hence the reason many people live 20/30 years in a marriage and then decide they "are gay". Because they realize they are more comfortable with the opposite sex. Or they've met someone that makes them feel comfortable about THAT choice.

There's few things we don't CHOOSE in life. What we do with those choices help define who we are, and where our life takes us.

The experiences I have had with this debate is, the people who think it is a choice are the ones who have the least amount of contact with Homosexuals. They see gays in the news and think "they chose to live this way." They are usually close minded and right wing.

Ask any gay or lesbian person if they chose to live this way, and I guarantee almost all of them will say they were born that way, and even though they wish they were straight, they have accepted themselves as being gay. Did you know that family rejection is a huge problem for gay people? Maybe you should research the question before posting.

AGEsAces wrote:
Absolutely...being heterosexual IS a choice.
I choose to be heterosexual, because I prefer relations with a woman.

That's strange I never chose to be heterosexual, but since I was a little boy I have always been attracted to girls. Explain that.

There's few things we don't CHOOSE in life. What we do with those choices help define who we are, and where our life takes us.

So I can choose to be Black or Aboriginal? Cool!

I don't believe it's a choice, why would anyone choose to live such a hard life? Makes no sense. I think bi-sexuality is a choice, but homosexuality is not.

One could argue that bisexuality is not so much a choice, but the inability (or lack of desire) to choose.

HurtinAlbertan wrote:The experiences I have had with this debate is, the people who think it is a choice are the ones who have the least amount of contact with Homosexuals.

I think you are leaping to conclusions.

Whether one CHOOSES their sexual preferences or their sexual orientation is GENETIC can be debated based upon many varying factors. Until recently I only knowingly knew one gay person that I worked with in a very very long and continuing career.

I base most of my beliefs on what I read in the newspaper and on TV and in movies. I'm certain that in my younger days I was repulsed by the thought of males in a sexual relationship. For some reason two women in a sexual relationship has never been offensive to me.

As I grew older I guess I became more tolerant. I don't approve of that relationship but I don't much care. I don't want to see open displays of affection but I won't say or do anything to make those in such a relationship uncomfortable.

For me this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. It just does not seem natural. But to each his/her own...

Well, at first I wholly disagreed with AGEsAces on his theory of choice, but now I can see what he's getting at. He doesn't believe that the preference for homosexual or heterosexual relationships is a choice, but that one does choose to act on preferences.

I think this is dancing around semantics, moreso than anything, because it boils down to being gay (aka attracted to people of the same sex) as not a choice. You don't need to have a homosexual relationship to be gay. It's the attraction in the first place, right?

The girl on the far left is from Minnesota. I was chatting with her. I am still kicking myself for not getting her number. she was really cool, and straight. She was with her gay friend who was also a Minnesotan.


A Drag Queen. If I didn't know better, I would say she looks pretty sexy...


A Sandbox member did his best at hiding his identity...



The Drag Queen that was flirting with me at the Beer Gardens.


Pow-Wow



Over 6,000 people attended the parade - a new record.

AGEsAces wrote:

I'd also be willing to bet that the "60%" quoted earlier is wrong. It's probably more like "20%" hetero, and "40%" bisexual.

.

I was at the parade. I should know. The pics you see of the parade are mainly of the more outrageous and flamboyant ones. I ran into at least 6 people I know, all straight. Most people were dressed normally. It was a fun event, and the vast majority had a good time. There were even many families with their kids there. Why can't you just leave it at that.

To the posters who feel this is "not right", what was not right about it? are they threatening you? Do you really think gays celebrating their sexuality one day of the year should not be condoned? What is truly ironic is it seems the same people who support the CMHR are the ones complaining about the parade.

I met several people from the US who came up just for the parade. Some were straight some were gay. If it pumps money into the local economy, who cares?

HurtinAlbertan wrote:Why can't you just leave it at that.

Right back at ya.

How be I don't question your motives and you don't question others motives.

How be you be as accepting of others views in this matter as you demand others accept your and the gay community's views?

Seems only fair eh?

BTW, joke or no, I really don't care much for your reference to me above. Kindly edit it out. ______________________________________________________

HurtinAlbertan wrote:The experiences I have had with this debate is, the people who think it is a choice are the ones who have the least amount of contact with Homosexuals. They see gays in the news and think "they chose to live this way." They are usually close minded and right wing.

Ask any gay or lesbian person if they chose to live this way, and I guarantee almost all of them will say they were born that way, and even though they wish they were straight, they have accepted themselves as being gay. Did you know that family rejection is a huge problem for gay people? Maybe you should research the question before posting.

Hello Pot, meet Kettle. Why not just debate? Why is it that someone who poses a different view is "close minded and right wing"? How narrow minded.

It seems SOME people don't like to debate. They have an opinion and choose instead to attack others with differing opinions. That pisses me off. Perhaps you've noticed.

Oh really...lol.

apparently you can cure gayness.

LOL

http://www.cracked.com/article_17460_p2.html

screw curing gayness how can I get one of these devices placed in my skull?

No Hurtin', you're making assumptions and then accusing me of the same.

Some of my best friends are gay...even "flaming", and they were at that parade.

Did you see the girl handing out cake in the FREEP? She's my wife's BEST friend...she's NOT gay...she's Bi. But the guy who made the cake...he's gay...and one of the most famous gay men in Winnipeg (from what I've been told).

Add to that, my sister is gay...and lives with her SO in California.

I'll agree with you that most gay people will tell you it's not a choice. The same as most heterosexual people will tell you their sexuality is not a choice. But as Pavolo expressed...it's still a matter of choice...the choice of action. Whether call it "semantics" or not..that's up to you...but it's still a choice.

When my sister first came out...my dad disowned her. Called her names...told her she was violating "God's Will". Told her until she straightened out...she was not welcome in his home. And basically...she just walked away. But she'd still tell you it's her choice to be with who she's with. Whether male or female doesn't matter...it's still a choice. She could've been dating a neo-nazi skinhead with piercings across his face...my dad would've reacted the same...and she'd still be choosing how to live.

Since then (this was more than 10 years ago now), he's changed his viewpoint, they've reconciled and quite frequently visit and talk on the phone weekly. He's welcomed her SO with open arms, and has (mostly) accepted the choices my sister has made.

So the comment made earlier about "why would they choose so hard a life"? There's nothing hard about the "life"...there's something hard about the choice. Why do people live in dead-end marriages? Why do people work in dead-end jobs? Why do people live on the streets?

These are all choices people make. Not all of them are ones you want. Not all of them are ones you may feel you have chosen. But they are all choices.
Many in dead-end marriages stay because of their kids, or because of religion, or because they just don't want to be alone.
Many in dead-end jobs stay because they think they are too unskilled, unhirable, too broke, to do anything different.
And even those on the streets...though they may have been thrown into that circumstance through trauma or happenstance, still have a choice to recover and move forward. To apply for assistance, seek help from charitable organizations. They have a choice to stay where they are...though it may be a "hard life"...many of them prefer that...to what they feel is an unbarable alternative.

I don't presume anyone on here has more or less experience than I do with any topic we discuss. I offer information based on my experience, and the information I have at hand at that moment. I'm also quick to realize when I've made mistakes, and have apologized quite frequently for having made them.

On this topic, however, my opinion is that it's a choice. Not because it's popular, or because it's desirable...though how many people "came out" over the past several years as more celebrities (Ellen DeGeneres, Anne Heche, etc.) started coming out. And then some of which went "back in"?

From the arguments to my opinion, I hear people saying "either you're gay or you're not". But that's just arrogance. That's like George W getting on a podium and saying "either you're with us, or you're against us"...maybe some people just like to be in the middle somewhere. And some people can CHOOSE whether they want to be with a man, or a woman.

Gender, Race, Birth Defects, Certain genetic diseases, Eye colour, hair colour, height...these are things you do NOT choose. Yet apparently they are things you can choose to change, or "fix"...and when you do, they are not easy choices...nor popular.

Well said AA...

Goth_chic wrote:I don't believe it's a choice, why would anyone choose to live such a hard life? Makes no sense.

Sure it's a choice! Just for some people, choosing to live as a heterosexual when you feel a preference for the homosexual is a poorer option than choosing to live as a homosexual, in spite of the resistance and intolerance of society and some family members.


In addition, to those that state that homosexuality is unnatural because the act of sex is a means of procreation: Homosexuality is one means of coping with the overpopulation of the world. As our society adapts and accepts those who choose not to procreate (including hetero couples who choose to remain childless), our society benefits.

AGEsAces wrote:

Gender, Race, Birth Defects, Certain genetic diseases, Eye colour, hair colour, height...these are things you do NOT choose.

Just like being homosexual, IMHO....

HurtinAlbertan wrote:

AGEsAces wrote:

Gender, Race, Birth Defects, Certain genetic diseases, Eye colour, hair colour, height...these are things you do NOT choose.

Just like being homosexual, IMHO....

How so?
Who you have sex with is a choice.

FlyingRat wrote:In addition, to those that state that homosexuality is unnatural because the act of sex is a means of procreation: Homosexuality is one means of coping with the overpopulation of the world. As our society adapts and accepts those who choose not to procreate (including hetero couples who choose to remain childless), our society benefits.

I wouldn't go that far but sure it will put a crimp on the birth rate somewhat...