Museum finally admits it needs to raise more money priovately.

Deank wrote:um... they actually pretty much do that already. They have been "borrowing" against the 22 million operating for construction quite regularly if Iam reading the budget information correctly.


and dont forget.. they already have 57 full time employees.... for what.?? I dont really know.. maybe for cicrle jerk off parties.. but regardless they have a fair amount of operating revenue already.

had no clue they've been borrowing against operating costs for construction. guess the Freep missed that.

Five HR managers to oversee a circle jerk? Who knew?

Outsider wrote:Why can't it be left unfinished right where it is.
Couldn't the Federal government start saving approximately $22 million per year almost immediately just on the annul museum funding?
And the unfinished museum could serve as a living case study on what can happen when a project does not get its finances in order before it starts. It can also show what happens if a project takes on "scope-creep".

Yes lets do that, because Winnipeg isn't a big enough sh1t hole now... While we are at it, lets stop construction on the new Disreli bridge. I don't use it so why should my tax dollars go towards building a new one.

Winnipeg is a shithole stonekiller?

We should start a new thread about how big of a shithole Winnipeg is.

The way some people talk about it you'd think it was.

Pretty tired of the attitude of some people, the potential to do good things in this city always seems to be poo poo'd by the naysayers and the whiners how their tax dollars are being wasted. It's a museum, museums and other cultural interest projects are meant to better the population. Yes the project could of been managed significantly better, but to abandon it now as Outsider suggests to merely prove a point is at least in my opinion an epic failure on everyone's part. The friends of the CMHR Frigged up royally, however instead of sticking our fingers in our ears and going "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" Find a solution that gets the thing finished and worry about the money after.

". The friends of the CMHR Frigged up royally,"

see.. but I dont think they did. I think they planned this from Day1 and were just thinking that the governments would simply cave.

You mean the friends conspired to do this all along? You figure they are that clever? Many a reputation is taking quite a beating. Bet ya they did not plan that....

Yeah if this was planned one would have to ask why? No good came of it. I think Gail and her friends had their hearts in the right place, but lacked some major planning and financial oversight.

Why not?

If you go back through all the media reports about the bombers, you'll see that Asper's initial motivation was for a publicly funded stadium. I think the whole BS land swap gimme the bombers crap was just a ruse to end up forcing the province to fund a public stadium.

I dont think anyone works on this for 10 years with the idea of bringing in a failure!

There is no doubt in any one's mind that the overall idea was Izzy Aspr's and that he worked for years on getting it done.

Crap like this takes lots of work, and lots of consultation with the Federal, Provincial and City each contributing to the pot!

Many have made remarks that the "Askers" don't care about anyone, but the amount of money they have donated to so many charities is amazing. They kept Winnipeg as their head office, when they should have been in Toronto for their business.

This Museum, in my Jewish opinion, is a waste of money, because I hate the idea.

The people who should be dragged through the Museum live in the Arab world, and in Africa, not in Canada! I don't know about any big benefit, but the building is Winnipeg's 1st big building, and the amount of business from construction and from the day to day expenses being spent in our City is great for our City!

This cost overrun is exactly what is normal, and when you analyze the expense, it is not that big.

Who is going to step in is a big question mark.

Maybe the Forum should have a garage sale?

Sorry, but Winnipeg has lots of big buildings. Isn't the TD centre about 32 stories high.
The Health Sciences building is pretty big. And the new airport building, etc.

This construction which created all those museum construction jobs would be a lot more impressive if the materials used to build the museum were made in Canada materials.

There are chairities which do good work in this very city who can not get funding because of donor fatigue. For example: Osborne House was turned down for funding today.
http://www.cjob.com/Landing/Story.aspx?ID=1670289
Some people are trying to get money for community centres.
Have any community centres been built in Winnipeg in the last 10 or 15 years?
And our roads are loaded with potholes.

And people still expect the taxpayers to put more money into a new MUSEUM.
I am confused about peoples prioities.

yeah 4? new super centres and at least 3 major add ons for ccs

Stonekiller wrote:The way some people talk about it you'd think it was.

Pretty tired of the attitude of some people, the potential to do good things in this city always seems to be poo poo'd by the naysayers and the whiners how their tax dollars are being wasted. It's a museum, museums and other cultural interest projects are meant to better the population. Yes the project could of been managed significantly better, but to abandon it now as Outsider suggests to merely prove a point is at least in my opinion an epic failure on everyone's part. The friends of the CMHR Frigged up royally, however instead of sticking our fingers in our ears and going "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" Find a solution that gets the thing finished and worry about the money after.

Finishing the building and worrying about the funding later.
Isn't that what got the project in financial trouble in the first place.

I am not in favor of abandoning it to prove a point.
I am in favor of abandoning it because there should be no more government funding available
and I have not heard of any private individuals with money who seem to be anxious to finish the job.

solution is simple

asper foundation agrees to back a loan for the financing

the museum aint gonna fail and donations are going to pour once h doors open, so whats th problm?

@DeanK. you were correct sir!

The CMHR moved 7M in operating costs (for computer software prep work) into construction costs. For all we know they could be hiding more capital costs in the operating budget.

I'll guess that construction may ground to a halt in the coming months barring a large capital injection from what is right now an unknown source.

I didn't man Wpg's 1st big building. There was a word to describe this type of building, as a one of a kind, one that isn't square and grey. Edmonton built a redesigned building from fancy to square to get the costs down.

This is an unusual , expensive, "designer" building.

The design itself is the statement.

I do like the idea of having it made out of Canadian materials.

A building made from tar sands and potash could be unique! lol

This building and its design were intended to be world class.

I wonder if people bitched this much when they built the new National War Museum in Ottawa? I have to wonder if Ottawa had funded this museum in its entirety would people be so up in arms?

Stonekiller wrote:This building and its design were intended to be world class.

I wonder if people bitched this much when they built the new National War Museum in Ottawa? I have to wonder if Ottawa had funded this museum in its entirety would people be so up in arms?

Perhaps not, I think that this has to do more with the Aspers involvement.

oh, and I am for completing the building and I do believe it is about the only thing you can truly say is "world class" in the city

Museums should be magnificent buildings. In my opinion, this is.

USApegger wrote:

Stonekiller wrote:This building and its design were intended to be world class.

I wonder if people bitched this much when they built the new National War Museum in Ottawa? I have to wonder if Ottawa had funded this museum in its entirety would people be so up in arms?

Perhaps not, I think that this has to do more with the Aspers involvement.

oh, and I am for completing the building and I do believe it is about the only thing you can truly say is "world class" in the city

Museums should be magnificent buildings. In my opinion, this is.

No, I don't care who built it.
I do not think it is needed at all.
If we are going to spend money, lets spend it on maintaining the stuff we already have.
Especially in these recessionary times when companies are looking to cut costs anyway they can including sending jobs out of the country.

Kinda late for that argument Outsider. You can't just abandon the building. Despite objections to the contrary that smacks of a "that'll teach 'em" response.

I get that some people hate even the idea of this facility. I don't even care why people hate it anymore.

If it is deemed the museum should be closed then put the facility up for sale and be done with it. That will really show them...

Obviously people think it is necessary otherwise it wouldn't have been proposed in the first place. Putting the whole Asper monument aside the feds and the province and the city thought this was a good idea, the problem was the funding model of private donations and public money. It should have been 100% publicly funded, having the donations come in to drive down the overall costs to the taxpayer. Instead of the other way around. At least this would of ensured that funding was there, and that donations were being applied responsibly.

It is obvious to me that some people would rather live in a dull dreary city, sure the roads will be great, but the city won't be worth living in.

"Putting the whole Asper monument aside the feds and the province and the city thought this was a good idea"

welll...... the argument is there that it was simply an "idea" that no politician could say no to without being labelled.. and you do see this labelling happen every time someone objects.

Labeled as what? A naysayer? A poo poo head?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless if their opinion is correct or not. However as I have been trying to say, sometimes the nearsightedness of some of the citizenry of this city is astonishing. Is it truly that hard to see past your wallet and see that some of these large projects regardless of their cost offer value to the city as a whole. May not be valuable to everyone but I would imagine that the majority of the people in this city see that there is value in having something like this here in Winnipeg.

I personally don't care about the museums theme or whatever, but I do grasp the big picture, and see that this is a feather in the city's hat.

ANTI SEMITE

Well my wife certainly is one of those! it is a good thing that I could get her drunk many years ago and she forgave me! lol

Completely funded would have been the answer, than all the hullabaloo about who had more dead ancestors would be falling to the bureaucracy to figure out!

The whole idea of having to have a museum to remember what has happened is silly.

Every religious person has in their history, at some time or another a time when they were fed to the "lions", or forced to work, or starved to death or just hit upon.

Even yesterday in the paper there was an article of some religious group being shot at!

Can you imagine that? It appears that we haven't learnt anything !

"A feather in the city's cap".... how about a dagger into the taxpayers heart/pocketbook?

Dean.K is also right on the money...... how could any politician or level of government oppose a "human rights" museum.

"I'm in favor of human rights but opposed to funding a museum of this nature".... this would be IMMEDIATELY spun into "That person is against human rights" !!! or anti-semite.

We know the original intent was for the CMHR to be a Holocaust museum (one of only many similar museums already in existence) some right here in Canada. The government only got on board with funding and "national" status when the concept was re-worked to human rights.

As we'll all eventually find out... this will be a Holocaust museum disguised as a human rights museum.

"We know the original intent was for the CMHR to be a Holocaust museum
(one of only many similar museums already in existence) some right here
in Canada."

heh.. someone needs to tell Gail because just recently she was saying.. oh no.. that was never the plan.