The Gods look for more

grumpy old man wrote:Actually I was just as offended by this statement: "Are you starting to see the difference between 'Job' and 'Profession'?

A teacher is a job. A police officer is a job. A fry cook at McD's is a job. A lawyer is a job.

Wrong.

A teacher is a profession. A grade 5 teacher at XXX school is a job.

A law enforcement officer is a profession. A law enforcement officer with the Winnipeg Police is a Job. A law enforcement officer with the RCMP is a job, a law enforcement officer with the OPP is a job.

A fry cook can be a profession. A fry cook at McD's is a job. A fry cook at Burger king is a job. A fry cook at Wendy's is a job.

A Lawyer is a profession. A Crown Attorney is a job. A criminal defense lawyer is a job. A divorce lawyer is a job. A corporate attorney is a job.

Still waiting on a profession that is as limiting in it's vacation time as a teacher.


I think Holly has already explained the difference between the summer vacation reality and what you percieve as being 8-12 weeks.

Gimme a break.

Which one ya' want...summer, Christmas or spring ?

I have quite a few friends who are teachers and the reason 95% of them became teachers was to have summers off.

I'm not sure where you taught Holly but the friends I know who are teachers teach in Seven Oaks and Winnipeg 1. My friends who teach do not work on weekends or evenings...my ex's father was a teacher for 25+ years and I never ever saw him working in the evening, weekends or summer and I lived in the same house as him for 2 years. Maybe teaching high school is different, all the friends I have who teach, teach elementary school. My one girlfriend use to party all night, come home at 6 am, take a shower and then go teach children and she'd laugh about it.

And yes Holly my ex's Dad had a ton of sick days saved up (3 months worth) and he took time off during the school year paid to get an operation (elective) he could've had during summer. He decided to get it done during the school year and take time off. The only thing I ever heard him complain about was the politics....he was 100% union and loved having all that time off paid!

Goth_chic wrote:I have quite a few friends who are teachers and the reason 95% of them became teachers was to have summers off.

I'm not sure where you taught Holly but the friends I know who are teachers teach in Seven Oaks and Winnipeg 1. My friends who teach do not work on weekends or evenings...my ex's father was a teacher for 25+ years and I never ever saw him working in the evening, weekends or summer and I lived in the same house as him for 2 years. Maybe teaching high school is different, all the friends I have who teach, teach elementary school.

Your ex-father in-law never had to do evening parent teacher interviews? What subject/grade did he teach?

Goth_chic wrote:

And yes Holly my ex's Dad had a ton of sick days saved up (3 months worth) and he took time off during the school year paid to get an operation (elective) he could've had during summer. He decided to get it done during the school year and take time off. The only thing I ever heard him complain about was the politics....he was 100% union and loved having all that time off paid!

Sick time isn't the same thing as vacation.

I don't argue the merit of their job nor the fact of time off but the fact that every year they come looking for more . I did not get a raise this year equal to what they got nor will I get a bonus .
Every year the schools want more and alot of schools sit empty this is due to another stupid thought the so called minister had . There is way to many superintendents and managers for the amount of schools involved and the tax payer pays them all .
The amount of special needs kids should be amalgamated in 1 or 2 schools and the amount of paid time off shortened by say 4 weeks a year.

St Norberter wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:

And yes Holly my ex's Dad had a ton of sick days saved up (3 months worth) and he took time off during the school year paid to get an operation (elective) he could've had during summer. He decided to get it done during the school year and take time off. The only thing I ever heard him complain about was the politics....he was 100% union and loved having all that time off paid!

Sick time isn't the same thing as vacation.

But he didn't go on vacation now did he????????? And a teacher of 25 years should be able to not have to work the extra time that a newer teacher does because of the experience, but there is also a saying in the teaching ranks that teachers who sit at their desks and talk don't have to work after hours because they aren't really teaching or engaging the children to learn. So while the children are reading quietly or doing assignments some teachers instead of engaging with the kids choose to mark papers so they don't have to work at home. It is all about choice and experience.
And with today's union agreement, the "sick" days do not carry over from year to year and if there is more than 3 days off a medical certificate is needed to verify a pay cheque.

Pavolo wrote:I don't argue the merit of their job nor the fact of time off but the fact that every year they come looking for more . I did not get a raise this year equal to what they got nor will I get a bonus .
Every year the schools want more and alot of schools sit empty this is due to another stupid thought the so called minister had . There is way to many superintendents and managers for the amount of schools involved and the tax payer pays them all .
The amount of special needs kids should be amalgamated in 1 or 2 schools and the amount of paid time off shortened by say 4 weeks a year.

Who comes looking for more ? The divisions or the teachers? Teachers sign multi-year contracts, so to say each year they come looking for more is incorrect.

Divisions? Maybe, but then again if the Province would lift the moritorium on closing schools then maybe some divisions could cut costs by closing schools with very low enrollment, such as chapman school.

And then there are schools like provencher ( 50%/50% french/english). The division wanted to turn it french immersion and amalgamate it with another school, but the parents got all up in arms and went to the education minister. The problem with that program is that you can't go from 50/50 to french immersion because you are not at the same level. And studies have shown that for the first few years, children in immersion are a little behind in english subjects than those in english schools (and if I am correct, starting in grades 6 & up, immersion students perform better than non-immersion students)

Point is that if the educatation minsister puts a lot of restrictions on the divisions ( some which increase their expenses), and then tells them that they'll get increased funding if they don't raise taxes.

Deank wrote:"very little time in between seasonal jobs." And you have said it, these are JOBS not careers"
that is an extremely ignorant comment and belittles the people and expertise needed to do those jobs.
"to take a month off in October who will it affect other than him/herself and their personal business or the employer."
his or her family will starve....you dont quite understand what living pay cheque to pay cheque for a hard working person is it seems

The difference I was inferring on the statement is that it takes 5 years to become a teacher as a profession(minimum) but you can apply for and learn on the job to become a landscaper. That is the difference between a "job" and a "profession". And as for understanding how to live pay cheque to pay cheque, you have no idea who I am or what my income or what my work background is so don't even think to know what my circumstance is. So in your words, that was an extremely ignorant comment which happens to belittles me. :mad 040:

"I have quite a few friends who are teachers and the reason 95% of them became teachers was to have summers off.

I'm not sure where you taught Holly but the friends I know who are teachers teach in Seven Oaks and Winnipeg 1. My friends who teach do not work on weekends or evenings...my ex's father was a teacher for 25+ years and I never ever saw him working in the evening, weekends or summer and I lived in the same house as him for 2 years. Maybe teaching high school is different, all the friends I have who teach, teach elementary school. My one girlfriend use to party all night, come home at 6 am, take a shower and then go teach children and she'd laugh about it." Goth Chic

This post IMO is not worth commenting on because my comments very surely would offend you, all I can say is I feel badly for the children who are in these classes with teachers who care so little for their students. And to answer your question I taught in the Inner City of Winnipeg 1 as well as in Seven Oaks.

Having or not having time off makes no difference as to how well you teach though.

If it wasn't for all of your tax dollars and these over/under paid, overtime/not overtime, slackers/hardworking, vacation/non-vacation taking teachers your children would not have and or get a decent education, and then another topic could be, "why is my child having to fight for a job at McDonalds"

Just a thought.

the only reason that it takes so long to become a teacher.. is because of the teaching profession forcing its rules on society... same goes for all other "professions" want to be a lawyer.. follow our rules.. want to be a doctor.. follow our rules....
have the crap is just that.. crap. I dont need a teaching degree to be able to actually teach 8th graders... but I do to legally teach 8th graders .

love&hate wrote:If it wasn't for all of your tax dollars and these over/under paid, overtime/not overtime, slackers/hardworking, vacation/non-vacation taking teachers your children would not have and or get a decent education, and then another topic could be, "why is my child having to fight for a job at McDonalds"

Just a thought.

I don't believe anyone is slagging teachers nor the quality of their work. Frankly I expect we all have a great admiration for teachers and the job they do. Especially in this day and age of the entitled and coddled. And they deserve the money they earn.

I'm merely pointing out that their lot in life is no more difficult than many others.

love&hate wrote:If it wasn't for all of your tax dollars and these over/under paid, overtime/not overtime, slackers/hardworking, vacation/non-vacation taking teachers your children would not have and or get a decent education, and then another topic could be, "why is my child having to fight for a job at McDonald's"

Just a thought.

Because some of the highly educated children we produce all go there first for the best wage .
I have no problem with teachers as several of my relatives are . My bone is with the way the system is run that allows them and their bosses to hid behind the good of child to pilfer more money for there job security and pension plan .
The shot was meant that we get lots of kids in where I work and some of the are pretty sad when it comes to life and what is expected from them , not all is the teachers fault some is parenting . But basic life skills are Reading English Math the three basics which no one seems to teach anymore. For all of the money spent , and whats wrong with some layoffs just like the real world .

After reading many of the posts on this site, not just this thread most on here should not be bashing the teachers as much as they do, they should actually go back to school and relearn their English spelling and grammar skills. You all claim to be adults but by the spelling and grammatical errors you seem to protray yourselves as 5th graders. If you want to be taken seriously, speak and write like you mean it.

Wow Holly, way to paint everyone with the same brush.

If the truth hurts so be it. I said MOST not ALL so it was not inclusive. And isn't painting all teachers with the same brush what this originally started with by assuming it is the teachers who are asking for the 3% increase? Correct me if I am reading the original post wrong.

St Norberter wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:

And yes Holly my ex's Dad had a ton of sick days saved up (3 months worth) and he took time off during the school year paid to get an operation (elective) he could've had during summer. He decided to get it done during the school year and take time off. The only thing I ever heard him complain about was the politics....he was 100% union and loved having all that time off paid!

Sick time isn't the same thing as vacation.

He wasn't sick. He took the time off to have something elective done and the rest of the time he did go away. He went to the lake, the states etc. That sounds like a vacation to me.

St Norberter wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:I have quite a few friends who are teachers and the reason 95% of them became teachers was to have summers off.

I'm not sure where you taught Holly but the friends I know who are teachers teach in Seven Oaks and Winnipeg 1. My friends who teach do not work on weekends or evenings...my ex's father was a teacher for 25+ years and I never ever saw him working in the evening, weekends or summer and I lived in the same house as him for 2 years. Maybe teaching high school is different, all the friends I have who teach, teach elementary school.

Your ex-father in-law never had to do evening parent teacher interviews? What subject/grade did he teach?

While I was living with him yes he did a few evening interviews...although most of the parents didn't show up. he taught in the inner city, when it came to doing report cards his wife did them for him. She would ask him questions and she would write it out. He was home everyday by 3:45 pm, he came home for lunch as well. If he had to do anything extra he bitched about it.

I am all for having school (esp high school) go for a full year, giving students and teachers 2 weeks off in summer and 1 week at Christmas. Maybe the kids will learn more. I think it would better prepare the kids for what the real world has to offer. How many jobs (besides teachers) get 2 months off in summer? 2 weeks off at Christmas? and 1 week off at Spring break?

holly golightly wrote:After reading many of the posts on this site, not just this thread most on here should not be bashing the teachers as much as they do, they should actually go back to school and relearn their English spelling and grammar skills. You all claim to be adults but by the spelling and grammatical errors you seem to protray yourselves as 5th graders. If you want to be taken seriously, speak and write like you mean it.

Maybe some have such grammar issues due to having shitty teachers...ever think of that? Teachers too busy planning their oh so deserved 2 month vacation.

There is the classic answer I was waiting for, blame the teachers as opposed to taking responsibility for yourself. Was wondering who would be the first one to come up with that one.
If you know how to read, you know what proper grammar is and if you take pride in your work, then you would know how to spell. Most programs have spell check but if that is what you rely on then that is your (collective) fault for thinking that spell check is always correct. Oh and maybe take the time to read over what you have written before hitting the post button to actually see if it makes sense.

holly golightly wrote:After reading many of the posts on this site, not just this thread most on here should not be bashing the teachers as much as they do, they should actually go back to school and relearn their English spelling and grammar skills. You all claim to be adults but by the spelling and grammatical errors you seem to protray yourselves as 5th graders. If you want to be taken seriously, speak and write like you mean it.

Cheap shot!!!

As I said from the outset, I've seen the good the bad and the ugly when it comes to teachers, and I can say the same thing about bus drivers, and cops and fry cooks at McDonalds. Thats not the point, as GOM said, we can not put teachers, as a profession or job, on a pedestal and use children as a some form of shield. The discussion started about large wage increases for the teaching profession during tough economic times, which will have an effect on bus drivers, copy and fry cooks at McDonalds as well.

And the 3% increase is part of the negotiated contract so blame the government for accepting the offer put on the table when the contract was put forth.

Yes, I do blame the elected assholes for selling the farm to pay teachers, but its not like the teachers didn't ask for it.

And deserve what they are getting if they have to teach the children of today and have to deal with the parents of these said children and all the baggage that comes with the attitudes and self importance.
Unless there is another personal attack directed towards me, I will not enlighten you to what it is like to be a teacher from a teacher's point of view, not the second and third hand stories that are told on here. Like I said before if the truth hurts, so be it.