The Gods look for more

I recently made contact through Facebook with my French teacher from High School (that class was more than 20 years ago)

He's still teaching...teaches 4 different language classes at the school (French, Russian, German, Latin).

I had always admired him...his zeal for teaching, and positive outlook on things.

Apparently they got some snow there this week...as they had a "snowday" yesterday and today. He made a post that he "feels bad he wasted his day by playing games and taking two naps". Mostly because he has 3 classes of exams he needs to grade, and he has been procrastinating.

The guy had been teaching for 10 years when I was his student. The comments made on his Facebook page from other former students and friends were things like "Hey, you deserve the naps" and "You should procrastinate for a couple of years, not days...enjoy the time "off"".

Again, there are teachers I had in school who I KNOW should not have been teaching. It is not a "job" for everyone...and I would not claim them to be "saints"...but they are certainly more important than MOST jobs out there...and are underpaid for their service and responsibilities.

Unless you have been a teacher, there are alot of sacrifices ( I say this as in there are benefits and conditions of employment that most people enjoy that teachers don't). Some include:

No choice as to when to take vacation
Manditory after hours work ( PT interviews, christmas concerts)
Depending on the division, may go three months without receiving a paycheque
No ability to strike
Sometimes contract negotiations take so long that by the time the contract is signed, the contract period is finished.
If you are term you may go from teaching Kindergarten one year to Grade 7 the next and then back to Kindergarten for the third year. How do you decide which PD sessions to attend? The ones that benfit the lower grades, or the higher grades.
And what happens if you are a teacher, and your kids christmas concert or PT interviews fall on the same day as the ones for your class?


For what they do, and for they give up, I think they are adequately compensated.

Would I want to be a teacher? Depends. Not junior levels, and I don't think I would last as a Jr. High teacher ( can't be as strict as mine were), but I think I'd enjoy being a high school teacher - I actually think a high school Gym teacher is a great career - where else can you be paid to participate in physical activity, an instill the ideas of lifelong physical activity in others ( I think our health care system should be orientated toward preventative and healthy living vs. reactive - but that's another topic)

Would all the teachers on here who worked Christmas eve, Christmas day, boxing day, New years eve and New years day.. please raise there hands.

The point is they get ample choices in which to take vacation. Way more then me and way more then most office workers, so please stop bringing up the point about limited choices of when to take vacation, its not a selling point of your arguement.

Just to answer a specific question, my daughter will graduate with a music education degree and her expected pay is from the pay scales for Seven Oaks, based on the year she graduate.

This is the way all discussions regarding teachers go. As soon as someone makes mention of rising education costs and teachers pay, its a condemnation of every teacher living and otherwise. Put it into context of the economy we are in, and the fact that teachers are well compensated, how can a 3% raise be justified. With 4 kids, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly, but if you challenge anything that a single teacher does, or anything to do with the profession, its considered an attack on humanity. There are many demanding jobs in the workforce,, but teachers have a massively strong union voice (especially with the current government) and they have made a very comfortable place for themselves, but how long can we as taxpayer fund the escalating costs?

The notion of no job choices is not so true either. They can work in any field they want where they are qualified. I know many electrical engineers working in different fields because they didn't like the field they chose. Lawyers and medical doctors too.

We all have options and choices. We make informed decisions about our careers (professions) and take the good with the bad. Teachers have it no worse than other professions. I find the inference that it is most annoying.

My God, I thought that part of the education system was to teach kids that life is full of choices.....except for the ones teaching it????

Sorry as a teacher you can't just up and go on vacation in February or in November (unless you want to be fired). And the times that they do have to go on vacation is classified as "high season" so the price is way more expensive that even teachers can't afford to go on vacations. That is the meaning of no choice for vacation time, it is a set time frame every year, no choice.
And Freeman, her degree is specialized in that she not only can teach a regular class but can also teach a music program. Teachers like her are very hard to come by so they are compensated well because of it. It goes the same for Phys Ed and French teachers, the most "degrees"ou have the more you are compensated for. As I stated, I had a Masters in Early Childhood but it is not as in demand as Music is so my pay salary was not as high although I was not at the top of the pay scale either.

But with your masters do you now qualify as a VP or principal? Whereas without one you don't???

"Sorry as a teacher you can't just up and go on vacation in February or in November (unless you want to be fired). And the times that they do have to go on vacation is classified as "high season" so the price is way more expensive that even teachers can't afford to go on vacations. That is the meaning of no choice for vacation time, it is a set time frame every year, no choice."

wow so just like 90% of the rest of the population.. good to know.

I have limitations on when I can take vacation as well due to our financial cycle, many people have to schedule vacation based on plant shut downs or seniority. Welcome to the world!!
One of my sons is taking Phys Ed right now as well.

Yes, the pay scales are based on qualifications (degrees) whether those qualifications are applicable to the job or not. Be nice if a CA could be paid at scale for a CA, but only doing an entry level clerk's job. (exagerration for effect, but you get the point)

I've known a couple of engineers and a lawyer myself who gave up those professions to teach. They got the "passion" and became good teachers.

I also have a dear friend who went to college for 6 years to get a double-major teaching degree, and taught for several months only to find out she couldn't teach...couldn't handle the pressures.

I had a friend do that as well. Graduated high school with honours and such... struggled through university... landed a job teaching kindergarten (her dream job), finally realized it was not for her and went to work at a bank first as a teller, now as the assistant manager or some such higher job.

Those that cant teach, do.

Freeman wrote:Yes, the pay scales are based on qualifications (degrees) whether those qualifications are applicable to the job or not. Be nice if a CA could be paid at scale for a CA, but only doing an entry level clerk's job. (exagerration for effect, but you get the point)

And if by chance she can't land a job as a music teacher and she takes a "regular" class room job she (depending on the division's contract) be paid as a dual degree music teacher to do a "regular" classroom job (so she will have the CA pay for a entry level job, reverse exaggeration in this case).
And as for the vacation thing, if my husband and I want to take a vacation together as a family I have to schedule it either at Christmas, Spring or early summer because of his limitations in his school position where I can take my vacation pretty much anytime now that I am no longer in the division. We have never taken a "warm winter" vacation, let alone any vacation during Christmas or Spring Break, because we can't afford the ridiculous prices they charge during the high times.
So if you think that a teacher makes a great salary and can afford the vacations, take a look at the prices being charged during a teacher's vacation time and see how much the travel industry gouges because of the time lines. You as Freeman citizen who is still limited in you vacation schedule still may be able to work it so you can catch a seat sale, there are never seat sales available during high times.
This is not a woe is me statement, just a fact of living with a school employee. And it was the same when I was teaching and he was a mechanic. Our vacation time together was extremely limited, more so back then.

Deank wrote:Would all the teachers on here who worked Christmas eve, Christmas day, boxing day, New years eve and New years day.. please raise there hands.

The point is they get ample choices in which to take vacation. Way more then me and way more then most office workers, so please stop bringing up the point about limited choices of when to take vacation, its not a selling point of your arguement.

Wrong.


If you truly believe they have ample choice in vacation then you are truly ignorant.

If you work your profession for long enough, you'll have a lot more choice in when you get to take your vacation. If you don't like the fact that you don't get the vacation time you want at your current employer, it is more than likely that you can go work somewhere else where you can take your vacation in the period you want.

Freeman wrote:I have limitations on when I can take vacation as well due to our financial cycle, many people have to schedule vacation based on plant shut downs or seniority. Welcome to the world!!\

But here is the difference. Your limitations are based on your employer, not your profession.

Its that fact of living with children who go to school that prevents the rest of us from vacationing. Its the fact of working jobs that have set release schedules or priorities that prevents us too
April and October for me... so what chance you think there is of in the 4-5 months before october and in the 4-5 months before April of getting an extended vacation? Doesn't leave alot of options does it?
Can you yet agree that teachers are not the only people who have to take vacations at certain times of the year? Its not like every work place on the planet has tons of people just sitting around waiting for others to go on vacation to fill their spot.

grumpy old man wrote:The notion of no job choices is not so true either. They can work in any field they want where they are qualified. I know many electrical engineers working in different fields because they didn't like the field they chose. Lawyers and medical doctors too.

We all have options and choices. We make informed decisions about our careers (professions) and take the good with the bad. Teachers have it no worse than other professions. I find the inference that it is most annoying.

I didn't say anything about working in a different field. I said that unlike most jobs ( and that includes electrical engineers, lawyers and doctors), a lot of the work conditions for teachers are dictated by the profession, not the employer. You want to attack my argument, then show me a profession other than teaching (not seasonal)where someone is restricted to taking their vacation in a specific time frame.

Deank wrote:Its that fact of living with children who go to school that prevents the rest of us from vacationing. Its the fact of working jobs that have set release schedules or priorities that prevents us too
April and October for me... so what chance you think there is of in the 4-5 months before october and in the 4-5 months before April of getting an extended vacation? Doesn't leave alot of options does it?
Can you yet agree that teachers are not the only people who have to take vacations at certain times of the year? Its not like every work place on the planet has tons of people just sitting around waiting for others to go on vacation to fill their spot.

What's your profession that limits you to that schedule? I'm willing to bet it is not a restriction of your profession, but a restriction of your place of employment.

And your living with children argument is weak and irrelevant. Vacations can be taken if you have children, it's just how you plan for it. Yes, it's prohibitive for some, but again, it has no bearing on the profession.

why say not seasonal, how is that relevent? Teaching is the grand daddy of seasonal jobs.
But whatever.. I'll live up to your requirements
Farmer,
Engineering Test Lead,

Freeman wrote:Just to answer a specific question, my daughter will graduate with a music education degree and her expected pay is from the pay scales for Seven Oaks, based on the year she graduate.

She'll most likely make more than a classroom teacher because of her music eduction, which is:

a) a different degree than a simple B.Ed.
b) a Specialized degree
c) higher demand. Fewer teachers specialize in music, gym, resource, so it is harder to find them.

and teaching has no bearing either then if you want to keep making up your own little rules about what counts and does not.
I know of far more then one teacher who has gotten approval for and taken vacation while class was in session. sure its prohibitive for some....

Deank wrote:why say not seasonal, how is that relevent? Teaching is the grand daddy of seasonal jobs.
But whatever.. I'll live up to your requirements
Farmer,
Engineering Test Lead,

Well considering you're a Farmer, I'd anticipate you'd understand a little better. However, Farming has two peak periods : Seeding & Harvesting. Close to teaching in that there are some limitations, but different than teaching in that unlike teaching, The restrictions on when you can take your vacations for Farmers isn't as tight as Teachers.

As for engineering test lead, I'm not exactly sure what that entails ( P.Eng ?, Eng Tech?, ), but when looking at the profession of engineering, there are a vriety of employers that have their peak periods at different times, so vacation can be taken at different times depending on the employer.

Deank wrote:why say not seasonal, how is that relevent?

Because I was trying to eliminate the post of me saying . That's apples and oranges when you responded with 'The additional staff that retail hires for Christmas' because additional christmas retail staff have 11 other months to take their vacation.

Deank wrote:and teaching has no bearing either then if you want to keep making up your own little rules about what counts and does not.
I know of far more then one teacher who has gotten approval for and taken vacation while class was in session. sure its prohibitive for some....

That's interesting. How long was the vacation? Was it a couple of extra days before/after a spring/christmas/summer break? What was the grade?

And again each division has it's rules and regulations and contracts for each, but it is in the Manitoba Public Schools Act as well as part of the Manitoba Teacher's Society contract that states a teacher may not take vacation during teaching time as they have set times where they are not teaching ie Christmas, Spring Break and summer. Even Principals cannot take vacations while school is in session. The people you know who have gotten approval for vacations while class is on may be non teaching professionals (such as lab tech's, computer tech's and para professionals). And if that is the case, their vacation also comes at a price, not being paid while paying for a vacation!!!!!!!!!!! But I don't presume to know who these people are who you refer to Dean.

I have seen it for Kindergarten, grades 3, 5 and 6 just in the last year at between two different schools.

And I see more qualifications on your rules, interesting how those keep getting added on... now it cant be just before or after one of the breaks they have. Fine take the grade 5 one out... leave the other 3 in as they were not at those times.