The Gods look for more

And deserve what they are getting if they have to teach the children of today and have to deal with the parents of these said children and all the baggage that comes with the attitudes and self importance.
Unless there is another personal attack directed towards me, I will not enlighten you to what it is like to be a teacher from a teacher's point of view, not the second and third hand stories that are told on here. Like I said before if the truth hurts, so be it.

I don't believe that I made any personal attacks, and having 4 kids which equates to 52 years experience with the public school system, I have many, many first hand stories that I could tell, but thats not the point.

I see you've gone to the argument that teachers should be paid lots because they have to teach our children who come with all kids of baggage and attitude. WOnder where they got the attitudes?

If you would have read the statement completely it also included having to deal with the parents of the children who also come with incredible attitudes. And you ask where these children get the attitude, only one place and that is from their first teacher, the parent(s). If all teachers had to do was teach, like they did when I went to school, then I might agree with the fact that what they earn is a lot. But with all of the parenting, social working, nursing, counselling, etc. that teachers have to do in today's classrooms, yes they are worth it.

I saw none of that social working,nursing and councelling stuff when my kids were in school. (One of 'em is finishing grade 12).

That may happen in some inner city schools, but only with newbie teachers. After a couple of years of banging walls with your head, teachers opt to leave at 4:01 I believe. At least that's been my experience.

So all the good things kids know and do is a product of their professional teachers and the bad attitudes come from the parents.

Holy sh1t, I think I just figured out whats wrong with the system!!!

JTF wrote:I saw none of that social working,nursing and councelling stuff when my kids were in school. (One of 'em is finishing grade 12).

That may happen in some inner city schools, but only with newbie teachers. After a couple of years of banging walls with your head, teachers opt to leave at 4:01 I believe. At least that's been my experience.

Ok with that said, why don't you suggest to both the government and the Teacher's Society that teachers who teach in the inner city should be paid more that those who work in the 'burbs because their job is harder. If that were the case, teachers would flock to the inner city because of the money and not because they want to be there.
In my experience, 90% of the teachers who choose to teach in the inner city do so because of the rewards of the job and those rewards are not financial.

I thought that the inner city schools get all kinds of extra help with 'resourse teachers' and the like. Isn't that why WSD No. 1 has taxes out of control??

Every school has at least 1 resource teacher per school, not just Wpg #1. So you have 1 resource teacher to service 300, 400, 500 kids????????????????? How is that effective?
And taxes may seem to be out of control in Wpg 1 but when the tax base you are taking from is one of the poorest in the city then of course raising taxes is going to happen every year. As well think about some of the buildings in Wpg 1 and how non energy effecient they are and that accounts for a lot of extra costs as far as heating, etc that is more costly than in other divisions. This is all part and parcel of the tax increase, not just teachers salaries. If we are going to go after anyone in any of the divsions for having extraordinary salaries go after the Superintendants and Trustees. You think a teacher makes a lot of money, how about a Superintendant who makes 125,000 a year? And there are 5 of them in Wpg 1 alone so if they all made that (which they don't, some make even more) that is 625,000 a year that is being spent on 5 people who are not even in the classroom. You take that money and divide it by 32,000 a year (which around the starting salary for a new teacher in Wpg 1), you could pay 19 teachers for one year.

Freeman wrote:Yes, I do blame the elected assholes for selling the farm to pay teachers, but its not like the teachers didn't ask for it.

Speaking of farms.

Everyone does realize why schools get summers off right?

It really has nothing to do with the teachers, or the school, it has to do with the farms.

When organized schoolhouses began...MOST of the students were required to work the family farm. So school would release in June, and resume in September to allow the summer for farming (prime season).

It also has to do with (in some areas) the heat...as schools were not air conditioned...and cramming 50-500 kids in a schoolhouse in the middle of July was not reasonable.

The "traditions" just carried forward.

California (several years ago), voted for year-round schooling. As have many other US States. I think it's only a matter of time before all but a few select schools will go "year-round".

http://www.nayre.org/Des%20Moines%20Register%20July%2013.pdf
http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin137.shtml
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec01/year-round.html
http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/year-round-schools

Ages, there are also communities in BC who do the year round schoolling and there are more "vacations" but they are shorter in length and spread out throughout the year but they still equal to the same amount of weeks off. But for it to work in Winnipeg all of the schools would have to be air conditioned and a lot of the older schools in many divisions are not. I know many years ago the province looked at it briefly but when this one little concept was brought up, it was the deciding factor.

Yeah, I figure as new schools get built, and old ones get torn down...things will change.

With 2 new schools built in the last year, and bids out on several more now...it's probably only a matter of a decade before the year-round option is approached again.

Quite possibly before my daughter graduates.

Pavolo wrote:

love&hate wrote:If it wasn't for all of your tax dollars and these over/under paid, overtime/not overtime, slackers/hardworking, vacation/non-vacation taking teachers your children would not have and or get a decent education, and then another topic could be, "why is my child having to fight for a job at McDonald's"

Just a thought.

Because some of the highly educated children we produce all go there first for the best wage .
I have no problem with teachers as several of my relatives are . My bone is with the way the system is run that allows them and their bosses to hid behind the good of child to pilfer more money for there job security and pension plan .
The shot was meant that we get lots of kids in where I work and some of the are pretty sad when it comes to life and what is expected from them , not all is the teachers fault some is parenting . But basic life skills are Reading English Math the three basics which no one seems to teach anymore. For all of the money spent , and whats wrong with some layoffs just like the real world .

Reading, English and Math, I do believe they are still part of the curriculum as I have a nephew in kindergarden, but what I know is that everything has went the way of technology. Such as kids read mostly what is on their facebook, email, and their chat systems with their friends, so they are reading How R U 2day. and slang becomes a huge part of their vocabulary. (I can admit I am guilty of this.) So there goes reading and english out the door, as slangs are being added to the dictionary every year because they are common among kids and adults now, as for math, as an adult, I can admit that even for simple math, here I am grabbing my cell phone (and knowing the quickest short cut to the application) and getting the caculator out. So the children of today having technology at their finger tips their own, the teachers, or parents fault.

Also I think that teachers are able to not work as much "overtime" as computers have come a long way since I was in school, and this hours of work after school and on weekends, and prep over summer has probably shortened alot, as work can be relocated at a click of a mouse, and there is everything, minor modifications of what worked would get put into the teaching lesson plan, what didn't, delete button. That being said, shorten the summer holiday. Kid's minds can only take so much, and the year round schooling may discourage them from continuting their education, as when they start to get older, they realise that graduating isn't really fun, it just means 5 more years of school just to get a degree, and then how many more for graduate school.

As for salaries and such
http://resource.educationcanada.com/salaries.html
pretty interesting.

It would be a good thing however none of the oldest schools are being replace yet and there are some in Wpg #1 that will not be relaced for many many years that are not air conditioned and the price tag to fit them with the air conditioners is ridiculous. The prime example of this is Tec Voc High School. The government had stated that for the city schools and divisions, it had to be an all or nothing approach, it couldn't be some divisions and not others. Could you imagine the nightmare it would cause if for example Seven Oaks were year round and River East wasn't. The move from the year round division to the 10 month division would be crazy until people realized how much more efficient the year round learn model is.

I can't imagine A/C being an impediment to year round schooling... It might be a little uncomfortable for some on some days but it should not stop that train...

Sit in a classroom of 30 prepubesent teenagers for 6 hours a day in a non air conditioned classroom with the only ventilation being the hot humid air being blown in at 30+ degrees and then tell me that is shouldn't stop the train. And some of the schools I have taught in only have minimal windows that are smaller than the normal house windows that open. Take a look at some of schools that were built in the 50's and 60's and even some in the 70's as examples of what I am talking about with the windows.

How many schools do we have? How many are not air conditioned? I know that I did not have the luxury of A/C when I was in school. But that was us old folks and it was only for a couple months a year.

By the way, how many of those same kids have A/C at home? Should society provide everyone with A/C? What about those unfortunate bastards that have to work outdoors without A/C?

A/C indeed!

grumpy old man wrote:How many schools do we have? How many are not air conditioned? I know that I did not have the luxury of A/C when I was in school. But that was us old folks and it was only for a couple months a year.

By the way, how many of those same kids have A/C at home? Should society provide everyone with A/C? What about those unfortunate bastards that have to work outdoors without A/C?

A/C indeed!

Actually, it comes down to design & effectiveness.

The old "schoolhouses" (you remember those GOM ) had cross-ventilation...but even houses then did not have A/C.

The old school buildings (60s/70s) were usually built with classrooms with large windows, and an "open" design.

After the 70s, it became more efficient to build "box" schools...with the theory they are only used from Sep-May so A/C isn't necessary, and minimal windows for "security".

If you look at designs of today's construction though, they've done a mix of small, high windows (both for security and to let the "hot air" out), and large open areas for gathering and cross-ventilation. A/C has been added with the circulation of air considered.

Effectiveness comes into play in dealing with how effective can a teacher be, if a student is more concerned with the sweat pouring off of them, than the topic at hand. It's estimated that more than half of the students in school today...do not want to be there. For a teacher...that means they are already fighting a losing battle just with the student...let alone the environment.

And since they've removed any real "threat" of dealing with problem students (ie. spanking, embarrassment, discipline labour), it's even harder for teachers to address control issues within a classroom.

i say fire A/C in there and if the little bastards act up. shut down the a/c prison style! let em know its a privilege to have such things in the first place!

Ages,
thanks for the "techy" point of view.
And just to add this tidbit, it is a proven fact that a person works best when in a cool environment as opposed to heat. And something else that seems to help that some schools in Winnipeg have implemented already is earlier start times (8am) with earlier dismissal times (2 or 2:30). Another idea that some schools in the hot states in the US do is have school from 8AM to 1pm and then resume at 6pm until 7:30. During the later class times the students participate in the physical activities (gym, intermurals, inter school games, etc). Not sure how many of these models are still in existance but I do know that they tried this model in Georgia and it was effective up to a point. I did a study on this model in university and it was quite interesting on how it all balanced out.

...and only build schools on hills so the kids have to walk uphill to school.

no, build them in valleys so it is easier to get TO school, and takes effort to leave!

A/C for schools? I think not. I never had that luxury while I was in school...don't believe we need it here in Winnipeg, this isn't Florida or California!

I know a 2 year teacher making more then 39.000 a year so the figures are a bit off. Hell one friend of ours got 1500.00 a year more when 2 divisions amalgamated recently , to bring salaries to par . I sure as hell haven't known to many others getting that.