It will have nothing to do with property taxes, especially when it becomes a utility. The utility's budget will be separate from the city, just like hydro's is separate from the province.
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Message [Page 2 of 2]
27 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:46 am
grumpy old man
administrator
Maybe read Brodbeck's piece on this. It opened my eyes, and as much as I hate to admit it, he has a valid point.
28 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:25 pm
Guest
Guest
The city is now saddled with the costs of up-grades. Making this a Utility will rid them of this burden and hence they will no longer have to pay the costs of delivering water services, so they should have to reduce the amount of taxes they charge us for this service. Or am I missing something?StBPegger wrote:It will have nothing to do with property taxes, especially when it becomes a utility. The utility's budget will be separate from the city, just like hydro's is separate from the province.
29 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:25 pm
FlyingRat
moderator
http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Columnists/Brodbeck_Tom/2008/11/20/7473831-sun.htmlgrumpy old man wrote:Maybe read Brodbeck's piece on this. It opened my eyes, and as much as I hate to admit it, he has a valid point.
Here it is
30 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:29 pm
StBPegger
Yup, the fact is the money used to pay for the upgrades comes completely from our water bills...which is why they've gone up so much. Since the upgrades aren't tax supported, this won't mean a reduction.JTF wrote:The city is now saddled with the costs of up-grades. Making this a Utility will rid them of this burden and hence they will no longer have to pay the costs of delivering water services, so they should have to reduce the amount of taxes they charge us for this service. Or am I missing something?StBPegger wrote:It will have nothing to do with property taxes, especially when it becomes a utility. The utility's budget will be separate from the city, just like hydro's is separate from the province.
31 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:34 pm
Guest
Guest
Wait a second here...doesn't the costs for up-grades come from our taxes and not just from our water bills?
32 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:41 pm
grumpy old man
administrator
I believe StBPegger is correct in that the costs are derived from their billings and not taxpayer funded.
33 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:03 pm
Guest
Guest
Heh...Isn't this the reason that the city is trying another approach to funding these projects? ...because they, indeed are on the hook for the money no matter how water service is delivered? This way they can still freeze taxes and raise what we pay, all at the same time?
34 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:17 pm
grumpy old man
administrator
Yes. No matter what the cost the city is on the hook. Raising water/sewer rates is the exact same thing as raising taxes no matter how you colour it. The major difference is it is more of a user pay system. Not sure how privatizing it will help other than private companies expert in water/waste water should be smarter run.
I'm not sure how wise a move this is.
I'm not sure how wise a move this is.
35 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:25 pm
Guest
Guest
Presently, the city is directly responsible to the voters and must answer questions regarding any future water rate increases. If it becomes a utility, we, the voters, will not have that option.
The utility will always be able to justify their increases, and trust me, they will have many.
The utility will always be able to justify their increases, and trust me, they will have many.
36 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:35 pm
incognito
contributor plus
It would probably be regulated by the PUB.
37 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:41 pm
Guest
Guest
For sure. That's what the PUB does.
What this really does is allow the city to wash its hands of the whole mess (water delivery and sewage up-grade deficit). It solves their problem while increasing ours.
What this really does is allow the city to wash its hands of the whole mess (water delivery and sewage up-grade deficit). It solves their problem while increasing ours.
38 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:44 pm
Deank
contributor eminence
all regulation by the PUB means is that they can apply for increases whenever they feel like it as long as there is proof that the expense is warranted and there is nothing that mom and pop can do about itincognito wrote:It would probably be regulated by the PUB.
whereas having it done at council level means we can bitch and yell at a councillor.
39 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:47 pm
Guest
Guest
Ta Da....when a politican tells you the time...better check your own watch eh...
40 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:48 pm
incognito
contributor plus
All I know is that the city has been using water and waste revenues as a cash cow for several decades. Every rate increase was supposed to be used to build up reserve funds for future upgrades, yet the money always ended up in general revenues. Looks like the chickens have finally come home to roost and Winnipeg ratepayers will (once again) be picking up the tab.
41 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:50 pm
Deank
contributor eminence
never mind the fact that sometimes PUB will actually tell the applicant that the rate change they are applying for is too little and that they need to charge more.
42 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:05 pm
StBPegger
How can the city build up revenues if they're using the cash NOW to do the upgrades? Remember, the city initially wanted to do the upgrades in 25 years, which was fiscally responsible. It was the province who said "not fast enough" and forced the city to do the upgrades in 15 years.
43 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:24 pm
Electrician
general-contributor
Heh.
Here, they cut alot of local property taxes. Almost everyone happy
.
Then, they started new taxes and raised utility bills, and the latest invention is a self-declaration of publicity signs on commercial sites like stores and restaurants, etc. Just to send the declaration costs CAD$ 80.00 each, and the declaration must include all the information, size, design, etc, all done by a highly skilled and qualified architect or draftsman... Oh, and they cannot have red, green, or yellow, on them anymore... Yeah, so what are peeps putting up for Xmas decorations? Red, green and yellow lights... This year's holidays are gonna be fun!
The smarter folks are tearing down their signs completely.
Here, they cut alot of local property taxes. Almost everyone happy
.Then, they started new taxes and raised utility bills, and the latest invention is a self-declaration of publicity signs on commercial sites like stores and restaurants, etc. Just to send the declaration costs CAD$ 80.00 each, and the declaration must include all the information, size, design, etc, all done by a highly skilled and qualified architect or draftsman... Oh, and they cannot have red, green, or yellow, on them anymore... Yeah, so what are peeps putting up for Xmas decorations? Red, green and yellow lights... This year's holidays are gonna be fun!
The smarter folks are tearing down their signs completely.
44 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:25 pm
Guest
Guest
Why the restriction on red, green and yellow?
45 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:26 pm
Electrician
general-contributor
Oh, forgot...
They already pay a special yearly publicity tax on their signs, adjusted to how big they are...
They already pay a special yearly publicity tax on their signs, adjusted to how big they are...
46 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:29 pm
Electrician
general-contributor
I think it has to do with a recent event that happened downtown with the Chinese outlet stores... The locals prhibited the ornamental traditional red lanterns from being hung outside the stores, stating that they distract peeps from the normal signal lights at intersections. Now they are saying that all those lights' colors must go...
47 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:30 pm
Electrician
general-contributor
The owner of the restaurant under my place has already decided he's taking his sign down.
49 Re: Water Utility Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Electrician
general-contributor
Wait til Shammy finds out about this money maker idea...
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