NHL Rumours... The NHL is returning to Winnipeg

JTF wrote:I was always under the assumption, as it was reported I believe, that the MTS Center was constructed as small as it is, so that it would be too small for an NHL team.

The MTS Center is what...15,000 cap? Edmonton is about 1,000 seats bigger only and they have a team.....sooooo....that argument cannot be used eh.

Its not the size of the arena thats the problem.

The problem is: Who is going to buy the tickets for 40 games at an average price of $75 per game?

And I think we would have to practically sell out every game to stay afloat.

If one looks at attendance in several US cities about one third are attracting less than 15,000 to games. Phoenix, Denver, Carolina, Columbus, NYI, Nashville, Tampa, Florida.

And many of those numbers are padded, and most are deep discounted. Those are the teams that are in danger of moving/closing/costing their owners $$$$$.

The major difference in Winnipeg is the new arena versus the old arena. This time around, assuming the new team owner includes the Chipmans) is they OWN the arena. That arena is already incredibly successful, carrying the cost of running that building. BIG BIG plus.

Then there are the private boxes. Something the old arena was painfully short of. Another big plus.

Don't forget the Canadian dollar. Painful as hell to a Canadian team when hovering around 60 or 65 cents. Not so bad when near par.

Finally the Chipmans have shown they know how to run a team.

Lately I think the Moose have been getting about 8,000 fans per game.
But is the average price of a Moose ticket about $75 which what they would need to support those NHL salaries?
And how many times have the Moose had a near sellout like they would need for the NHL?
And wouldn't the price for boxes have to be higher for NHL hockey?

Please don't get upset at me.
I am just being realistic.
The only thing worse than losing a NHL team is losing 2 NHL teams.

I agree with you outsider...Some may be offended at the reality of the situation with Wpg and the possibility of an NHL team coming to the peg but realistically it just ain't going to happen at this point in time...There just simply are too many factors that need to be addressed in Wpg and or the NHL before it could...GGF

Can't compare the Moose to an NHL team. Throw in a Goldeyes comparison while you're at it. Seems kinda silly to me.

GGF wrote:I agree with you outsider...Some may be offended at the reality of the situation with Wpg and the possibility of an NHL team coming to the peg but realistically it just ain't going to happen at this point in time...There just simply are too many factors that need to be addressed in Wpg and or the NHL before it could...GGF

What offends me are the people that blanket state it can't happen and provide no more logic than "it can't be done".

Enough with the negative rhetoric, tell me why it can't be done.

JTF wrote:I was always under the assumption, as it was reported I believe, that the MTS Center was constructed as small as it is, so that it would be too small for an NHL team.

The MTS Center is what...15,000 cap? Edmonton is about 1,000 seats bigger only and they have a team.....sooooo....that argument cannot be used eh.

Edmonton is looking at building at a larger arena -- in the 20,000 seat range. It was in the papers when I was there in Sept.

An NHL team in Winnipeg will not make money, but it would lose less money than some of the struggling U.S. franchises.

So how can Wpg bring in TV revenues in the US in relation to increasing TV revenues in the US in order for the NHL to increase it's market TV shares in the US?...and...

And TV revenues in the US is the "Big factor in the equation for the NHL" and "after" the other 2 factors?...and...

And which are seat sales and the first factor which Wpg is iffy on whether it could meet a 15,000 or close to 15,000 target on a continuous basis and or long term and mainly because the Wpg or MB economy has demonstrated that it couldn't at current NHL ticket prices...People have mortgages, kids, cars and other financial obligations and an NHL game would but one luxury in a wide range of entertainment competitors...and...

And realistically on the 1st factor alone...How much would a family budget for the NHL entertainment venture as part of their everyday lives and in relation to their income or budget?...

And the 2nd factor which is merchandise sales which are also without guarantees and those revenues by themselves fluctuate in time of wins or loses etc...and...

And yeah the math just doesn't work for Wpg at this point in time no matter how I try to roll the dice...and...

And these are what are some of the reasons I say it is but a dream to have an NHL team in the peg...and...

And or because the math just doesn't add up for an NHL team in Wpg...and...

And as important if not more which is the NHL and it's vision to expand in the US market and mainly in the US TV revenue market...GGF

"So how can Wpg bring in TV revenues in the US in relation to increasing TV revenues in the US in order for the NHL to increase it's market TV shares in the US?...and..."

the TV revenues for hockey that no one watches are pretty damn low

Not in relation to a home team in the US and...

And what most people don't understand is the demographics surrounding a home team and the population surrounding that very demographic is what TV advertisers base the value of an add within that market...and...

And those vary from market to market...and...

And so what if it don't work in a city or demographic in the US....

Because the NHL are not ready to give up on the entire US TV market and or the many US cities or demographics within the US that can help achieve the expansion the NHL is looking for in the US...and...

And it takes time to tap in the huge US TV market and to win over the US...and...

And the NHL have way too $$$$ already invested in the US to turn back now...GGF

"And it takes time to tap in the huge US TV market and to win over the US.."

unfortunately by the time that happens most of those areas will be under 10 feet of water due to global warming.

"Because the NHL are not ready to give up on the entire US TV market and or the many US cities or demographics within the US that can help achieve the expansion the NHL is looking for in the US...and.."

that makes no sense at all. They will give up money losing ventures and very soon. They know that having a team in Atlanta means absoluting nothing to the huge TV audience they get out of New York.

Lets end this debate right now.

I say that Winnipeg will have an NHL announced (if not already playing) by spring 2012. I will buy you an extra large Mama Mia Special from Vern's Pizza if I am wrong. Are you willing to put anything up to say I am wrong?

Outsider wrote:
Sorry, but I think there is a better chance of an NHL franchise being sold to Saskatoon before Winnipeg.
Of course I have been wrong before.

I guarantee that on this account you are wrong because that has to be one of the most unlogical things I have ever heard in my life.

I don't understand all the talk about US TV revenues. NBC shows a game a week and some playoff games and shares revenue with the league. They did not offer hundreds of millions of dollars to show the game, the last big NHL TV Contract was with ABC.
Versus pays $80 million a year, much less than TSN and CBC.
Bettman has tried for years for the big network payout and will never get it. Hockey is a regional sport, it will never work in Phoenix, Florida, Atlanta, jsut the same as the NBA doesn't work in Canada

...and we can stick the Avco World Trophy at the entrance of the Winnipeg Human Rights Museum...


(I had to say it, no one else had the guts...).
(Now, back to my truce).

"jsut the same as the NBA doesn't work in Canada"

Well I was going to argue about Toronto being a kick ass team with absolute tons of supporters... but its not like they are really Canadian anyway so I will let it go.

EdWin wrote:

Outsider wrote:
Sorry, but I think there is a better chance of an NHL franchise being sold to Saskatoon before Winnipeg.
Of course I have been wrong before.

I guarantee that on this account you are wrong because that has to be one of the most unlogical things I have ever heard in my life.

Why not? They have an airport, don't they?
And they even have a freeway, which I don't think we do.

200K population might have something to do with it.

Hey Deank...Perhaps your right about those cities in particular but what about all the other US cities and or the US TV markets and their demographics within that particular US city?...and...

And look...As far as I am concerned with Phoenix...It was a terrible idea from the get go...and...

And the "NHL BANKED" mainly on the great one and or 1 man to change the lay of the "NHL Land in the Desert"...and...

And right from the get go...There usually is never a single man or woman or child that change things on there own...and...

And yes 1 person can make a huge difference in the big picture of it all...But that single person cannot ever do it all by themselves...and...

And the NHL has learned a hard lesson from that experience...and...

And so what?...Lessons are what makes us all grow at the end of the day providing we learn from them which I believe the NHL has...and...

And also that the NHL will not exit the huge untapped US TV market that soon as a result...and...

And the NHL will either keep going with the teams in the locations they are in right now or they will move them somewhere else in the US...and...

And not back to Canada including Wpg...and...

And because Wpg has a maximum of approx 1 mil or slightly more including all of MB and perhaps a bit of it's surrounding areas around MB to offer as an NHL city and it's TV market or demographics which in itself is a very small city in many of the US markets and that doesn't include the surrounding demographics around that same US City...and....

And it's simply a $$$$numbers game for the NHL and Wpg just simply hasn't got the numbers working for itself...and...

And last but not least...There are a huge range of issues for the NHL regarding moving a Team back and fourth in the US and back to Canada and then perhaps try to say in the future bring a team back to the US...and...

And it won't happen anytime soon because the NHL will continue in the US the way they have been in the US...and...

And because the NHL already have teams in the US and why would they want to get out of the hardest market to tap on earth which is the US marketplace?...and...

And they won't take themselves out of the US marketplace and that means they will simply move teams around in the US "if they have to"...GGF

GGF.... Its real simple .. They are not leaving the ENTIRE US MARKET. They will be leaving FAILED MARKETS WITHIN THE US.

You understand the difference right?

Spring 2012 at the latest.

Deank wrote:200K population might have something to do with it.

But does that 200K population have more disposable income than we do?
And how much money do they get from the Feds from equalization?

not sure what equalization has to do with it.

200K have more disposable income then we do? Doubtful.

Deank...Yes and do you understand failed markets in the US moved over to some other new market within the US and not back to Canada?...GGF

What other US markets are there? Houston, Vegas? KC, Seattle, Portland, SLC, San Fran, I just can't see how they would choose these areas over actual placxes where people will PAY to watch the games. The NHL is a gate driven league, the above place may have greater disposable income, larger population, but they probably lack one thing, Hockey fans

GGF wrote:Deank...Yes and do you understand failed markets in the US moved over to some other new market within the US and not back to Canada?...GGF

and you do realize that tommorrow is in the future not the past and that not everyone is rich enough to continue losing millions of dollars per year right?

Usapegger...That's the whole point when you are trying to tap in a "NEW MARKETPLACE" and in the US...and...

And you go within a "US Marketplace area" where you think it may succeed within the US...and...

And not back to Canada which will do nothing in terms of adding to the US Marketplace and or mainly the TV Revenues generated which are also translated in fans etc...GGF