Aboriginals

Go teach them the whole loan system and how they can use it to their benefit. All these car dealers are teaching them how to get a loan! >.< As well as these lenders where you can get a PS3 for $300! Or $50/mo for 12 months!

Oh. And I forgot about the pay day loans!

Shouldn't school be the one who teaches them???

If you have been reading the Freep lately you will see that Schools only exist to make sure jane and johnny graduate without hurt feelings.

Pavolo wrote:
When only a few were Goths ex, after all I know many whites just as bad Goth.

Who said Goth was bad, I thought it was her ex that was a dickhead!!

"Because until recently they could not get a loan or probably not get a job due to the fact that they were native ."
and....that is 100% not true at all. They could get a number of loans for a long time. Then some a$$hole Natives figured out that they could get loans and the banks had no right to come on to reserve land to take anything away from them so the banks stopped giving loans to people living on reserves for the most part. If however you were native, had a job and did not live on the reserve there was no problem at all getting a loan.

Interesting thread...varies from flaming each other to actual discussions about the topic listed.

Either way...to be on topic...I briefly read through this yesterday and started thinking.

According to someone's link (Dean? Pav?) or copy & paste in another thread of the actual Treaty...there is no viable way to solve this problem so that everyone is happy.

I'm sure when it was made, but whoever's ancestors...it was an alternative between annihilating the natives to take the land, or move them out of the way and hope they either kill each other off, or die off from the elements.

I'm also sure that, like today, generations ago there were the bleeding hearts who went out of their way to try and save the natives of that day. They would teach them, feed them, clothe them, and try to help them adapt to the climates and society.

I'm also sure that both sides only anticipated the agreement to last for at BEST 2 generations...and that something by then would ultimately change. It's no different than the governments of today, who borrow billions of dollars to solve a problem instantly that took a generation to create...rather than planning for the future and expecting recovery to take time.

I also found it ironic in the wording. The agreement was NOT between Canada and the natives of the day. It was between The Queen, and the native leaders. Which ultimately ties the hands of everyone.

As a result of this treaty...Canada can NEVER become its "own country" (ie. not answer to The Queen anymore) or else the treaty will be null & void instantly reverting the lands back to the natives.

The natives must continue to maintain their "band" lifestyles with their reserves and Chiefs, because if they immigrate into society completely, they break the treaty...and forfeit all their lands and "rights" given to them.

The absolute best thing that could happen (though it seems it would be bad to begin with) is to abolish the Indian Act entirely. Simply get the Queen to sign off on the abolishment, and tell all the Natives they are now Canadians. Feel free to celebrate your ancestry, but as Canadian Citizens...everyone gets the same as all other Canadian Citizens, and no special favours due to race.

Canada will dump the monarchy soon. Probably in the next 10-20 years. We have no special ties to the UK, other than basing our laws and parliament from their system. I would expect that we will soon change our currency from having the Queen on our bills and coins, to some ex-PM or animal that has some significance to our country.

In 1982, we got rid of the British North America act, only problem is Quebec has yet to ratify it. Australia recently took a vote to see if the country wanted to leave the Commonwealth, and it was almost 50-50, but by a slim margin the Aussies voted to keep themselves in the mix.

How about this picture on our money.

http://www.orwelltoday.com/chretienchoke.jpg

death128 wrote:Go teach them the whole loan system and how they can use it to their benefit. All these car dealers are teaching them how to get a loan! >.< As well as these lenders where you can get a PS3 for $300! Or $50/mo for 12 months!

Oh. And I forgot about the pay day loans!

Excellent point.

If you give someone a blank cheque, and never bother to tell the person how to best manage that money, there is a good chance they will blow it within a short period of time, especially if they come from an improvised background.

Coincidentally, someone did a study of ex-NBA players that retired during or after the 90's. They found that 2/3 of these players that were making an average 0f $2-3 million per season were broke within 5-10 years. The reason being most NBA players are African-American and come from a life of poverty, and don't know how to invest their money. I wish I had the link for this, as it certainly made an interesting read.

Here is the typical Pavlovian response.

Here is a link.

Go look it up.

To bad you expect me to do all of the looking for you , as I do not keep all of these sites in my memory as to where the pertinent sections are . If you are to lazy to look do not criticize me .
Lenny thank you for the PM and yes I read that story too of the NBA and I think it included the NFL too.

It's not really a matter of being too lazy. Seriously. If I'm sent to a website with dozens and dozens of pages of material there is no possible way I'll find the passage that you believe validates your position.

Find the material you want to reference and make it easy. Else few will bother. Better yet, clearly state your position. Make it pertinent. And relevant.

You might even convince me.

How can the treaties be applied today? Funny that the argument about the Crown comes up and how we should get rid of it as its an old concept, but we find ourselves bound by treaties that bind us as long as the grass grows. It just takes some serious political will and honest effort to resolve the situation. Putting First Nations on reserves didn't work, residential schools didn\t work and what is being done now (throwing massive amounts of money at the problem) sure the hell isn't working either.

Giving Quebec special status isn't making them happy either, so how can anyone expect the Indian Act to be relevant in the 21st century?

Freeman wrote:
Giving Quebec special status isn't making them happy either, so how can anyone expect the Indian Act to be relevant in the 21st century?

Comparing Quebec with Aboriginals is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Quebec separatists are a bunch of ungrateful whiners who don't realize how screwed they would be without us.

Freeman wrote:How can the treaties be applied today? Funny that the argument about the Crown comes up and how we should get rid of it as its an old concept, but we find ourselves bound by treaties that bind us as long as the grass grows. It just takes some serious political will and honest effort to resolve the situation. Putting First Nations on reserves didn't work, residential schools didn\t work and what is being done now (throwing massive amounts of money at the problem) sure the hell isn't working either.

Giving Quebec special status isn't making them happy either, so how can anyone expect the Indian Act to be relevant in the 21st century?

To bad they first do not have special status in the same way Quebec doe,s , second we spend more on Quebec keeping them in Canada then we do to make the Natives lives better. By quite a long shot .
And I totally agree the system is not working but chucking them out on the street immediately is not the answer . I will find the links later for the money thing but Iam sure you can figure it out .

LennyJessop wrote:

Freeman wrote:
Giving Quebec special status isn't making them happy either, so how can anyone expect the Indian Act to be relevant in the 21st century?

Comparing Quebec with Aboriginals is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Quebec separatists are a bunch of ungrateful whiners who don't realize how screwed they would be without us.

Good one. I like to start my day with a good laugh. Thanks for this.

The Indian Act does not represent special status??? Wheres the department of Freeman's affairs? Why wasn't I issued a Freeman status card? As the British North America Act gave Quebec the right to its own language, religion, laws within the confines of their own province, these treaties give aboriginals rights that non aboriginals have.

While we can debate the amount of money spent on supporting Quebec vs aboriginals, the fact that they are distinct under the law is the issue.

As far as posting links Pav, no thanks, they never make sense anyway, so why start now.

If you took the time to read them they would but you too busy insulting instead of learning .

I used to read them, but found that I was just getting more confused and older.

Sometime tell me what rights they got I would love to know . And i will look at it as a legal right enshrined in law . Not as a treaty right if you understand the difference

Treaty rights are not protected by law??? Trying to change the legal system because you stuck your foot in your mouth just won't work.

As usual you do not know

As usual, I really don't care either.

I imagine one of their rights was to die for this land, while they could not vote in it .

Women had the same problems also.

Sure as hell did not fight in the second world war, and they had the right to work in a factory which a native women could not .