When The White man Got The Aboriginals Off the Good Land, Did They Promise Running Water

I don't know how to interpret the Wpg Free Press' 2nd of 3 parts regarding "no running water on reserves?

Does any one have a copy of the agreement?

The story as published makes a very compelling argument that the reserves simply don't work and in their current form never will.

It is very clear that there has been multi-generational mis-management of these bands lands. It is likely that even $8 billion annually will not provide Canada's Indians with proper housing but with good management it was possible over the last one or two generations.

If we do not dissolve reserves then plan to provide the necessities of life at every reserve. Build proper water treatment plants. Design town sites that makes it practical to run water and sewage lines to each house.

This is ridiculous.

As usual with media stories the focus is on human interest and we don't know if this is a systemic issue and if there is a broader context with access to water. So there are a few 1000 homes without connection to water and sewage on reserve, but I am wondering how many homes there are in rural or even urban Manitoba that are NOT on reserve and face the same issue. The stories show individuals in precarious circumstance, but it is not clear if they are really failed by a "system" or if this is a lifestyle choice that is part of living in a "traditional" way.

I don't know what "traditional way" means today, but I think 200 years ago the tradition was to follow the animals south when winter showed up, unless we are talking about 450 million years ago , when the climate was tropical.

There has always been a very serious lack of any type of economic activity. Any efforts to obtain self employment are frowned upon as this typically has resulted in government funding dropping by quite a margin. If a company makes $1k, the government decides that the economic value of that $1k would benefit the reserve in the amount of $1.5k (not the actual amount) and they would therefore reduce their payments to the reserves by $1.5k. The economic value is based on the trending economic value of the country. There is no economic value on the reserve... And the owners will basically spend the $1k elsewhere (as there is no economy on reserve) so the $1.5k that does come out of the reserves pockets are never replenished in any way.

Of course. The people don't know why they're still in their poverty-stricken condition so they'll just keep voting the same people in. Any type of change is frowned upon by the leaders. Any type of efforts to get out of this position will be pounded into the ground by 'new by-laws' which will be passed solely to stop those efforts.

1) no. the treaties do not promise running water
2) Several places where I lived we dug our own well with no assistance from the government
3) one of those places the house was over 200 feet from the actual well. Want water.. carry it in a pail. Winter, summer, spring, fall. did not matter, want water for washing bathing drinking cooking. carry it. We would keep a pail in the house at all times and the moment it was used up you went and got more
Some mornings so cold in the house you had to break a layer of ice off the top of the pail to get at the water.
4) we used a pail to carry our sewage out as well. We were smart enough not to dump it in the same location that we got our water from.

5) running water right to the house in most rural homes is relatively new idea. less then 60 years ago hardly anyone had running water in their houses.

I'm guessing this discussion relates to yesterday's Freep story on the reserves/water. It made me angry. Anybody see the "makeshift garbage dump" referred to? It was the yard of their jouse. A house with broken windows covered in sheets. Situated inches from their driveway (new model 4Runner in the drive) is also where the 20ish make was spilling out that days sewage bucket - and then the piece talks about their concern for sanity? The whole situation makes me sick. Anybody see the 80 lb infant in diapers? Then they talked about how it's easier for them to have the kids drink pop instead of water. I can't help people who can't help themselves. In fact it's worse then that. They create their crisis because they're of the opinion that it's not their problem - it's ours to fix/supply. Our politicians needs to grow some nads and start calling this kind of thing for what it is.

I wondered about this notion of pop instead of water. If peeps will spend money on bottled pop why not spend money on bottled water? Surely bottled water is not more expensive than pop...

Again the question has to be why won't they take care of things they can take care of themselves? Like cleaning. Sweeping the floor does not cost anything.

You can buy a 24 flat of water at Shoppers Drug Mart right now for $1.99 - I just bought four.

Brooms an sweeping? That will require another program including funding - apparently. The answer is WorkFare. That will come with expectations and conditions - including that people engage their own lives. It is in our future. The situation is unsustainable otherwise.

I was thinking about the cost on a northern reserve...

I was looking at a map of Manitoba, with fly-in only reserves. How did the aboriginals decide that , that area was 'right' for them? Where were they moved from?

They were moved from everywhere to nowhere.
your land was stolen by the first banker who could resell it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtdTJP_GUI&feature=related

The vans go steady between the north reserves and Wpg WalMart's. They can carry water as well as coke.

Vans don't go anywhere from the northern reserves on the map- they are all fly in camps.
My wife told me her upbringing on their Fisher Branch farm was continual hauling of water from the well.
1960 appx when they got inside plumbing, so the messiness, dirty , surroundings , on the reserves that are featured in the Free Press are all because the maid did not get there the day before.
The unhealthy up bringing is appaling to me.
For Stephen Harper not to extend a hand of compassion to his Uncle, elder Sam Harper at Wasagamack is just what I expect from the Conservative Government.
I sure hope that all f those shown in this expose manage to get down to Winnipeg, so we can look after them!

H2O in the northern reserves (no road, fly in) tends to either be a) totally untreated and you have to buy water from the Northern Store, which has a bulk water treatment/ozone machine (prices are reasonable, machine actually working is iffy) or they do have a treatment facility if you are living in the main part of the rez. You often do not see bottled water (singles, flats) because the cost of bringing them in as air cargo is redonkulous, and often the store has other things they'd rather ship up on the ice roads (like fuel).

Of course, one could BOIL the damn water, if one was so inclined...just as one could theoretically sweep a floor or take garbage to the dump. Or brush their teeth.

This situation is fubar, and needs to stop. As much as I think pulling the plug tomorrow would work, I think the way to do it is to implement a 20 year plan.

It's pretty much stating that the generation of kids being born from this point forward are not going to live like the current generation when they become adults, and NO ONE in this day and age can live like their ancestors did, or at least not co-existing with a modern society.

"You often do not see bottled water (singles, flats) because the cost of bringing them in as air cargo is redonkulous, and often the store has other things they'd rather ship up on the ice roads (like fuel)."

yeah.. but the pop is already being shipped there. Surely a 2 litre of pop can not cost less to ship then a 2 litre of water?

INAC needs to be shut down.

Reserves that are not tenable need to be shut down. Those that are profitable need to introduce private ownership of homes.

There's no future on the Rez. Kids don't want to stay there to live by the "traditional ways," even if by "traditional" they mean institutionalized welfare.

Phase out reservations, phase in living elsewhere with training for those able-bodied people on assistance.

Help these people break the cycle of learned helplessness.

Well that is a whole other issue.

We throw absolute SCADS of money at insuring new immigrants have a place to stay, have training that will help them adapt to our society and learn how to work and live.

Natives? Not nearly the same level. Its expected that just because they are Canadian they know what to do and such.

Take this little story for instance. NOTHING exists even remotely similar to this for Natives or other rural manitobans moving to Winnipeg

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/home-allows-transition-to-a-new-life-105093974.html


Worse yet.
Most reserves get X dollars per person, regardless of if they live on reserve or not.

Many reserves insist that you live on reserve in order to vote.

All reserves control who lives in what house so if you move off reserve, chances are low that you can move back. All reserves control the housing for the people, its rare that even a chunk of land will be given up if you wanted to move your own house on to the reserve.

The dang near impossibility of moving back, makes it a very hard choice to leave.

The lack of resources when you do move here makes it hard to adapt.

Reserves should be FORCED to give X percentage of per capita funding towards programs that help people move off reserve.

Start fixing what is wrong. Change those rules and do it today. Start planning to make a reserve self-sufficient or start planning to move families off the reserves. Give them full and unfettered access to any education they want. Then cut the purse-strings.

In the interim, why would people want to live in squalor and filth when they don't have to? Frick-sake, even welfare in Dauphin or Brandon or Winnipeg has to be better...

Preconceived misconceptions of what awaits them if they move?

" Change those rules and do it today."

Ahhh... but then we are taking away their independence.

Deank wrote:" Change those rules and do it today."

Ahhh... but then we are taking away their independence.

I posted the records of the water supply from figures across the country on another thread-
GOM,can you get it on this thread and cancel the other one?
It shows Manitoba as having the worst record, why I do not know, since this is a federal responsibility.
Look at Quebec with zero homes having no running water! Anyone know why?

Type of water supply to homes serviced by Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, March 2010


REGION /a) Housing units /b) Water trucked to 45-gallon barrels c) / No water service d) / No plumbing (A+B)

Atlantic a) 6743 b)0 c) 11 d) 11

Quebec a)9,889 b) 0 c) 0 d) 0

Ont. a)23,783 b)59 c)1,011 d) 1,070

Man. a)15,633 b)908 c)540 d) 1,448

Sask. a) 13,544 b)47 c)53 d)100

Alb. a)14,718 b)329 c)283 d)612

B.C. a) 18,959 b) 1 c)164 d)165

Yukon a)583 b) 0 c)4 d)4

TOTa)103,852 b)1,344 c)2,066 d)3,410
Source: Indian and Northern Affairs Canada