FYI about Natives

You at least I can debate the position of , you are right they are mentioned alot but they are the documents that we and our forefathers wrote and got them to sign . What I am trying to point out is the injustice of the position we've left them in . These injustices have been shown and challenged under the courts .
After decades of neglect , bureaucratic indifference and out right exploitation. Canada's 610 First Nations are negotiating new deals on land use , native autonomy, self goverment and land title . Old treaties are under scrutiny and negotiation being brought on by court cases lost in the courts by the goverment .

The Nisga of BC being one such case and the right to there land deal to northern BC . People say Natives get something for nothing , well then why are they the poorest in the land . Gee could it be that the deck has been against them from day one .

I would suggest that a lot of the 'exploitation' was done by their own people. Don't ever forget that there are hundreds that are playing the Native Game here.

The corruption on the reserves by their own chiefs must stop before there is any advancement. The rest of the debate is just fucken bullshit designed to change the channel.

Quite honestly, this sounds like bull sh1t to me. Pav, if there is any shred of evidence to support the statements that you have made, just post it or a link.

And in the meantime, why not just debate the issue, and not attack anyone who disagrees, or doesn't believe you. Prove us wrong.

This stumps me too,Freeman, have never heard of anything along these lines.

A few things I don't understand! Pavola , you said that the treaties were written on toilet paper! I don't think that toilet paper was that thick that the original papers would be around today!
Why are so many Jewish lawyers involved in todays litigation? That alone would have me suspect that what is going on isn't kosher?
A friend on mine is a Jewish accountant and he is involved in advising aboriginals, and I wouldn't trust him because he is Jewish, and all his expensive advise would be suspect!
CSIS, a group that excludes Jewish participants breaks the laws of the land. How can anyone trust anyone?
CSIS- a group of lying, lyars says "The failure to include relevant information in the source matrix was inexcusable and is a matter of profound concern to the service," CSIS's senior counsl , Michael Duffy(not Jewish), said in the letter.

Freeman read the Indian Act and you will learn well most of it has been repealed there is still some of it in effect . Most in this country do not understand the reach of the act or the control the goverment were given by it . At the time I tried the link at least the goverment one it was not working there are other sites. Try any of the multitude of sites out there , course in some opinions there probably bullshit to
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0003975
This but one of the multitude of sites , the info I give you i gleaned from 1 yrs worth of research into the act and sorry I forget where some of it comes from . The act and the laws regarding natives in this land are a rather large subject.

Sorry JTF if you disagree but then I will give you your privilege to and leave it at that , Dean the same .
Rosen no matter what You always make me laugh , it is good for the soul .

That site makes no reference to what you have stated. It seems that I am not alone in my questioning of what you are saying. Opinion is one thing, but you claim to be presenting facts, and those have to be substantiated.

"People say Natives get something for nothing , well then why are they the poorest in the land . Gee could it be that the deck has been against them from day one ."

Could be that sure, could also be that for whatever reason they dont want to leave the reserve.

There is no question that the "Indian Act" has failed completely, for First Nations and the rest of Canada. Once everyone admits that, it is merely a matter of trying to address the issue in a logical, methodical and realistic manner.

The reserve system may have been appropriate 150 years ago, but it does not make sense in todays world, so time to re-think it.

Having the tax paying public completely support an entire group of the population, which continues to grow, is totally immoral. If dumb old me can figure that out, why can't Ottawa?

Let's concede the Treaties and the Indian Act are complete failures.

How long will the aboriginals keep sucking off those failures and when will they start doing something for themselves?

I do believe I know the answer. Never. Not as long as we keep shoveling billions upon billions into that bottomless pit.

Just sayin'.

Indian Act ( R.S., 1985, c. I-5 )
Full Document for Printing: HTML [240Kb] PDF [462Kb]
Act current to May 13th, 2009
Attention: See coming into force provision and notes, where applicable.
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SALE OR BARTER OF PRODUCE

Sale or barter of produce

32. (1) A transaction of any kind whereby a band or a member thereof purports to sell, barter, exchange, give or otherwise dispose of cattle or other animals, grain or hay, whether wild or cultivated, or root crops or plants or their products from a reserve in Manitoba, Saskatchewan or Alberta, to a person other than a member of that band, is void unless the superintendent approves the transaction in writing.

Exemption
(2) The Minister may at any time by order exempt a band and the members thereof or any member thereof from the operation of this section, and may revoke any such order.
R.S., c. I-6, s. 32.

Offence
33. Every person who enters into a transaction that is void under subsection 32(1) is guilty of an offence.
R.S., c. I-6, s. 33.

Not quite right but it tells you what you want it is illegale to sale or barter produce .

I guess the key is "unless the superintendent approves the transaction in writing". When was the last time the superintendent DID NOT approve such transactions?

Chuckled over the Roads and Bridges section. When was the last time the reserves carried out the instructions of the superintendent?

Or when was the last time a superintendent was even connected to a reserve for that matter.

We really need contemporaneous references Pav...

This will show you why the land was not available before this last year on certain reserves , Due to some bands signing new treaties they have finally gotten control of their land hence the agreements I have spoken of . Also shows why it is hard for them to borrow for things like equipment to farm .

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/I-5/bo-ga:s_36/20090605/en#anchorbo-ga:s_36

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/I-5/bo-ga:s_88/20090605/en#anchorbo-ga:s_88

This act is still in force on most reserves grumpy and it is the law on them . And last year to be precise Grumpy sorry the ruling is not linked to show you, you are wrong . It was taken on the Dakota Tipi for trying to sell honey in the local town .

Pavolo wrote:And last year to be precise Grumpy sorry the ruling is not linked to show you, you are wrong . It was taken on the Dakota Tipi for trying to sell honey in the local town .

I haven't a clue as to what you are on about.

"A transaction of any kind whereby a band or a member thereof purports to sell, barter, exchange, give or otherwise dispose of cattle or other animals, grain or hay, whether wild or cultivated, or root crops or plants or their products from a reserve in Manitoba, Saskatchewan or Alberta, to a person other than a member of that band, is void unless the superintendent approves the transaction in writing.

"
You do understand why that is in the indian act right?

Because the land and all the resources on the land belong to the entire BAND not the individual Indians. Anyone selling anything that was grown or cultivated on the land and selling this for his/her own good would eb stealing from the Band. The reason the BAND can not just do it is so that the BAND does not deprive its members of anything. This is the same reason why none of the land can be considered OWNED by any band member so it can not be sold or mortgaged.

How much of their land would be available today if every single member got their chunk and could do with as they please?

They want land to do with as they please? Move off the reserve and buy some.

Pavolo wrote:Also shows why it is hard for them to borrow for things like equipment to farm .

My experience shows they don't pay their bills. This is very common even today. Peeps doing business on reserves are asking for as much as 50% down up front with progress payments equaling work as it is provided. Very little credit is extended unless the Government guarantees it.

They are also pretty much judgement-proof on the reserve. Buy a car off reserve. Bring it on reserve. Never make a payment and they cannot retrieve the car. That pretty much explains why it is hard for them to borrow for things like equipment to farm.

That will have to change. And that is not something I did. Nor my forefathers.

Or when was the last time a superintendent was even connected to a reserve for that matter.

This act is still in force on most reserves grumpy and it is the law on them . And last year to be precise Grumpy sorry the ruling is not linked to show you, you are wrong . It was taken on the Dakota Tipi for trying to sell honey in the local town

Pavolo wrote:Or when was the last time a superintendent was even connected to a reserve for that matter.

This act is still in force on most reserves grumpy and it is the law on them . And last year to be precise Grumpy sorry the ruling is not linked to show you, you are wrong . It was taken on the Dakota Tipi for trying to sell honey in the local town

Huh? WTF? You know what? Maybe debate this by yourself. I've no energy for this.

Yeah, hard to have a good discussion when one person has all the facts, unsubstantiated or otherwise and thinks the rest of us are dolts. I thinks I'll just fina another thread and make fun of DeanK, thats a lot more laughs.

There you go putting words in my mouth again to bad you don,t take the time to read the link provided . Then you nay understand the discussion to begin with..