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FYI about Natives

+2
rosencrentz
Freeman
6 posters

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1FYI about Natives Empty FYI about Natives Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:14 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

The image of a typical farmer down through our national mythology , is not that of an investment banker in a suit . Nor is it a native in traditional dress, but last March in Saskatoon the two meet . The bankers and investment people of Bay Street , along with a group of Indian Chiefs from Sask and Alberta . There to form the unlikely marriage which for one will make them the most influential farmers in Canada .
Under this plan 17 bands will lease out there land to one mega corporation called One Earth Farms , which will focus on sustainable environmentally responsible uses for the land . All 1 million acres of it . While doing this hiring and training aboriginal workers to provide Native people a equity stake in the company.
This project is being funded with a 27 million dollar investment by the Toronto based Sprott Resources Corp . The founder an investment guru Eric Sprott will also donate 1 million to the University Of Saskatchewan to create a scholarship for aboriginal student who take Agriculture related studies .
These farms will be spread in pods of 20 thousand acres across huge territories , and will be complete operations Cattle oilseed and Grain cultivation . The 17 bands involved have all signed letters of intent with One Earth Incorporate , but not all of the 1 million acres will be signed over the first year. Still with the largest farms being 20 thousand acres this will make One Earth the largest player in the countries 40 billion farm industry .
Bands from Manitoba and BC are eager to sign on to the plan to this venture could easily double in size. Most of the land in the project is already used in farming .

Agriculture has always been mentioned in the Numbered Treaties signed by the Crown , this is a continuum of the native agriculture ambition . They were not allowed to use modern farming equipment and were slowly forced out . They were also not allowed to sell their products on the open market , and were restricted to peasant farming . This exclusion continues today as most bands lease land to non native farmers , rather then work it them selves .
It is a policy which has contributed to record high unemployment on the reserves, to this day , as few aboriginals are employed in the farm sector . In doing some research for this venture I have found that some natives were paid 9 dollars rent an acre where the going rate was 60 dollars. Chief Dale Awasis of the Saskatchewan Thunderchild First Nation said he will sign over 56 thousand acres to One Earth
He has been renting land for years but was never happy with the way it was taken care of , a lot of us are economically deprived . Individually we have had a hard time to start projects in the past the Chief said . Most say Indians can't do it well Iam pretty versed at proving them wrong .

In closing it has been a pleasure to be involved in this research for the good of the Native Community . And to see the leadership shown by Sprott Corporation .

2FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:18 pm

Freeman

Freeman
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

HOw can a First Nation sign over land when the don't own it?

3FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:51 pm

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

If $60 was the going rate who are the dumbells who rent it out for $9?
If the answer is aboriginals then, I would suggest that they got exactly what they asked for! Who should be blamed the renter or the rentee?? There is no blame!
Who wrote the above article?



Last edited by rosencrentz on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total

http://www.elansofas.com

4FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:58 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Freeman wrote:HOw can a First Nation sign over land when the don't own it?

They enter into a third party agreement with the renter of the land , and they do not give up title to it . Also rosen that is the way the whites have treated them , sad to say in their life some money was better then no money . Also the reserves can rent their land as long as they do not sell it which they are banned from doing .

5FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:11 am

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

I question the $60 as what it was worth as against the $9 that someone says they were paid.
Is Chief Dale is renting out 56,000 acres at $9 or $60? This report is really not complete!
I do not accept numbers quoted as the truth!

http://www.elansofas.com

6FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:54 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

He never rented 56 thousand he rented 2000 acres of his bands land to private farmers from the area , the 56 thousand is for the use of One Earth. This is under a totally new agreement with them .
The old land renters are long gone mad that they have lost their cheap land rent . That's what happens when the only show in town is upstaged.

7FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:25 am

Electrician

Electrician
general-contributor
general-contributor

So the new corp. is saying they'll make new jobs, but for now, they're destroying other existing jobs. I wonder what they're gonna hide under the farmland? Maybe toxic waste from the States?

http://www.new.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1416203996

8FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:58 am

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

I still don't understand the numbers! Pavola , 2000 were ar $9 per acre, and the new group is paying $60 for 56,000 acres? Sounds to me great for the renters, and sounds to me that there is government tough negotiating with the aboriginals, and that the aboriginals will have something to look forward to.

http://www.elansofas.com

9FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:23 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Most Corps in Canada have not and will not go into these agreements with the bands for it means that they are not 100 percent in control. If they do they pay the average white farmer 60 an acre , They will only pay natives 9 to 12 an acre depending where they are for there land . Also they will treat them like they know nothing and can not farm . So how would they know what is right , It is called Racism at it ugly best .
Some in this land still do believe they are stupid , but if that is all you have been able to get for it then you have to take it . The other beauty of this deal is the owners still have some control over it and how it is worked. The corp gets what it wants good crops and lot of help to get it in and out of the ground .

10FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:50 am

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Sorry Pav, I don't buy it. If one accepts $9 for something another will pay $60 for, who is at fault? Why does this have to be an evil white man story?

Let's assume the evil white man (area farmers) will only pay $9. Fine. Seems to be market level. No one seemed to offer more. Now they have found someone willing to pay $60. Good for them. Take the money and run. But it makes piss poor business sense to me.

Why didn't the Aboriginal owners of that land farm it themselves and earn the kind of revenue that Sprott seems to believe is possible? And keep ALL the money.

Food for thought: Wiki says the average yield of wheat per acre is 30-50 bushels. The latest price for wheat is $6.23 per bushel. That nets $187 - $312 an acre. The University of Wisconsin-Madison says it costs $210 ($US) an acre to farm wheat. In 1998.

Even assuming the cost per acre has not gone up, something seems a little wonky here... Maybe $9 an acre is the right price...

11FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:22 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Why didn't the Aboriginal owners of that land farm it themselves and earn the kind of revenue that Sprott seems to believe is possible? And keep ALL the money.

Agriculture has always been mentioned in the Numbered Treaties signed by the Crown , this is a continuum of the native agriculture ambition . They were not allowed to use modern farming equipment and were slowly forced out . They are also not allowed to sell their products on the open market , and were restricted to peasant farming . This exclusion continues today as most bands lease land to non native farmers , rather then work it them selves .

Buy it or not it is the way it is .

12FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:27 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Pavolo wrote:They were not allowed to use modern farming equipment and were slowly forced out . They are also not allowed to sell their products on the open market , and were restricted to peasant farming.
It that applicable today? Are aboriginals still disallowed from selling agricultural products today?

13FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:32 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Pavolo wrote:This exclusion continues today as most bands lease land to non native farmers , rather then work it them selves.
Just so I'm crystal clear, because aboriginals are excluded TODAY from selling any agricultural products they are FORCED to abandon their land and lease it to non-aboriginals?

14FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:33 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Pavolo wrote:They were not allowed to use modern farming equipment and were slowly forced out.
Did this clause ever get negotiated out of those treaties? If so, when?

15FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:56 pm

eastsider

eastsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

Maybe its just me but I'm having a hard time swallowing this.

16FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:19 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Not just you eastsider. But I'm trying to keep an open mind and hoping for clarity.

17FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:43 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Yes except for modern Equipment they can now use it negotiated out in 1949 if they can afford it , see there is more to the treaties then what you see if you want the full version apply to Indian Northern affairs for it cost is 175 dollars Most are 250 plus pages . They are not available on line yet . Some parts the goverment is not proud of . One of the biggest opponents to them having the right to full farms was the Modern farming organisations as they were seen to be at a unfair advantage no taxes . They can still not get fair market prices for there goods, hence this deal .
By One Earth leasing there land and subbing out the labour to them , they skirt the ownership of the crop issue and all taxes are paid . It is not that they cannot sell it they just won't get the same price a regular farmer will . This is to protect the farmers of this here land . So there are many things most do not know about Indians and there plight .

Hence also the condemnation of this county by the UN and most world Human Rights Tribunals .

18FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:29 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"if they can afford it "

gee you mean like everyone else? thats crazy to force them by that rules.
"see there is more to the treaties then what you see if you want the full version apply to Indian Northern affairs for it cost is 175 dollars Most are 250 plus pages "

Bullshit. Those are NOT the actual treaties

19FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:12 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

O I forgot there only the phoney ones go on Mr Expert .

20FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:08 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Much of this change is coming about because of the present goverment and past ones desire to settle treaty disputes . The need to settle these have increased in the last few years , due to the legal cases before the courts .
The question of Native rights and the constitutional rights of all . The treaties were written long ago and were never updated to the modern times, nor to modern court challenge .
What is for certain is this process is to entrenched to to be aborted , Now it is time to work out the relationship in the modern world . it will be up to Canadians to exercise the cilvility , patience and a good dose of mutual deference to keep us from a country of racial antagonism . The times they are a changing as the song said .

21FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:14 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

the actual treaties are a couple of small pages and that is it.

Everything else is add on bullshit and not the actual treaties.

22FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:18 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

As a said you are right you are the expert . The documents Ive seen were the toilet paper used at the signing .

23FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:23 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Pavolo wrote:As a said you are right you are the expert . The documents Ive seen were the toilet paper used at the signing .
Geeze man. Debate. Debate your position.

24FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:28 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

What bothers me Pavolo is too much is made of those treaties. While the treaties may have turned a whole culture into a needy multi-generational people there is too great a dependence on those treaties as an excuse.

We need to ignore the never-ending excuses and just get on with it. Quit looking to the government and start looking inward. Enough already.

The winds of time are turning now. You see it every day. Most hard-working Canadians have had it with the woe-be-me hard-done-by horsesh1te.

25FYI about Natives Empty Re: FYI about Natives Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:49 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

You at least I can debate the position of , you are right they are mentioned alot but they are the documents that we and our forefathers wrote and got them to sign . What I am trying to point out is the injustice of the position we've left them in . These injustices have been shown and challenged under the courts .
After decades of neglect , bureaucratic indifference and out right exploitation. Canada's 610 First Nations are negotiating new deals on land use , native autonomy, self goverment and land title . Old treaties are under scrutiny and negotiation being brought on by court cases lost in the courts by the goverment .

The Nisga of BC being one such case and the right to there land deal to northern BC . People say Natives get something for nothing , well then why are they the poorest in the land . Gee could it be that the deck has been against them from day one .

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