The Endless Debate

Pavolo wrote:...Do it in stages...

Ummm, that is precisely what I have said at least twice in this very thread. It is also a position I have taken many times previously.

Pavolo wrote:...there are other pressing problems grumpy , Louise Bridge and the Disraeli for two. What about all the streets that need paving...

Someone needs to decide what is more pressing. I don' know if the Disraeli or Louise Bridges or Kenaston are more urgent. I'm not that smart.

Pavolo wrote:...Keniston inconveniences so few of the city population...

Check out the linked 2007 Winnipeg traffic flow map. It would appear to be a very busy thoroughfare.

Yes it only really serves a mall and a mall and a suburban area Waverly West, if the developers want it so bad why don't they assume the cost . To make there development more salable.

The city needs two bridges fixed or replaced before they fall into the river , they need to make the north end more livable and get rid of the old decrepit housing stock . Which to me is more pressing then conveniencing some suburban dweller.

Pavolo wrote:Yes it only really serves a mall and a mall and a suburban area Waverly West, if the developers want it so bad why don't they assume the cost . To make there development more salable.

The city needs two bridges fixed or replaced before they fall into the river , they need to make the north end more livable and get rid of the old decrepit housing stock . Which to me is more pressing then conveniencing some suburban dweller.

Those bridges needing fixing, that's for sure...but really who is responsible for the growth of traffic heading north down Henderson? Wouldn't be the people in West St.Paul, East St.Paul or Bird Hill etc. would it? Seems like servicing them is servicing the "suburban dwellers" as well doesn't it?

Better to service someone actually living within, and paying city taxes than people who flee the city for cheaper taxes.

I'm sick of people in this city ragging on any sort of progress that actually improves things. Everyone has their own personal priorities, but that doesn't mean every project should be stalled because it's not number one on each person's individual list.

All of East Kildonan and some of Transcona use those bridges are not my taxes just as good as yours or any one else's . The widening of Keniston should have been looked at when the underpass went in . But now along comes Ikea and the road needs to be rebuilt . Mean while the east end puts up with just as much bs at rush hour .

When you speak of rural residents they come in from all over the area where do you think Oakbank comes in from what about Brunkild and of course All of southern Manitoba Pembina and Keniston so your tax argument is moot .

I live centrally (Crescentwood), so it makes no difference to me personally. I was just trying to point out that your argument applies equally to people in the south end, or north end, west....whatever.

To say that Kenaston traffic flow shouldn't be improved because people who live in the south end know that traffic sucks and should just move elsewhere is ludicrous. As is the argument that if projected growth makes traffic flow worse we shouldn't improve things now, let's wait till they get worse first.

As far as I know, there's no big projected projects (commercial or residential) for the north or east ends of the city. The same can't be said for the south end (Waverley West, Ikea, new stadium etc.). I think it's prudent to look ahead and starting planning how to improve flow before it becomes anymore of a nightmare than it already is.

Precisely the reason you stated (that the widening should have taken place during the underpass construction), is all the more reason to do it now. It was a huge mistake to build the underpass without improvements further north, and we're not getting the bang for the buck we should be from the underpass as it really hasn't solved anything without improving the area north of it.

Like I said before, we need to stop being against improving the city by using the argument that my pet project needs action first. All you end up is going around in circles getting nothing done (like is the norm around here 40 years for an underpass is ridiculous).

I first did not say it doe's not get done only it needs to be done in very small parts ,my argument is that the underpass was supposed to solve all of the woe's which I knew it wouldn't .
It is now time for some of the other things be it whatever Disraeli sticks out in my mind . Keniston will get done and should be done but it needs to get to the back of the line again after all Henderson has also been bad for 35 plus years .
Also because we designed it to cost as little as possible. The Loiuse Bridge is also a higher importance now , it has been around much longer . I don't be little the people on Keniston as I drove it for more years thn most on here I dare to say . Just that wait your turn and take a number.

Actually that underpass has made a HUGE difference.The impact that several train crossings had on traffic flow was monumental. 8am. 10am. 2:30pm. 5pm. Any time of the day you'd be stuck waiting for the longest freight train to clear. Many times one train would be almost through when a second would start through.

And don't forget the Disraeli Bridge improvement will not improve traffic flow one iota. Not one. Nada. Ziltch.

Seriously though we can take on more than one project at a time. Things will never get done in this city with that approach.

However, using the logic applied in this thread when the stadium closes at Polo Park and Polo Park closes due to all the shoppers moving to the Kenaston big box stores and the new Ikea there will be absolutely no traffic on Kenaston. /sarcasm

HUGE??? doubful considering how much fewer trains cross there now.

However, using the logic applied in this thread when the stadium closes at Polo Park and Polo Park closes due to all the shoppers moving to the Kenaston big box stores and the new Ikea there will be absolutely no traffic on Kenaston. /sarcasm

...from the sublime to the stupid eh...

Exactly...

Never said it would in prove flow just don't want it to fall down under me HUGE difference there called safety and besides till you rebuild and redo the St James Bridge what you do to the street is USELESS as you are still 2 lanes going up northbound . Check it out .

Seriously though we can take on more than one project at a time. Things will never get done in this city with that approach.

Yea and we can find the money in your back yard . At the rate the city gets things done expect the bridge in the same time frame as the Douglas Street project been on the books since 1969 much like Bishop Grandin was .

There are just too many other projects that the residents of the areas involved have waited for. Just saying it is time to fix somethings that we have that need fixxing . We seem to have a aversion to fixxing properly in this city , much like planning .

The bottleneck point is well made. Nonetheless a project must start somewhere right? So maybe we start with southbound. Then Northbound. Then the bridge... A well planned and timed transition would work best on so many levels.

Part of traffic flow management is keeping traffic moving at a steady pace. Southbound traffic is constantly slowed by turning traffic, buses, slow moving traffic (trucks for instance)... So if we were to widen Kenaston southbound from the St. James Bridge through Waverly West I believe southbound traffic would be greatly improved.

Again though if we close off all cross traffic except Grant and Corydon I expect a big improvement. Let's start there. Then maybe construction.

Don't forget the most important thing for traffic movement...syncronize the friggn' lights.

along wiht syncronize them... RESYCRONIZE THEM during construction an accident or any other thing that messes up the flow of traffic for more then 10 minutes.

Shammy proudly announced the traffic lights have been synchronized. I believe him. Trouble is I don't believe they have a freaking clue how to do that.

I know they dont know how.

Notre dame from portage ave to Keewatin.
Used to be that you would wait at the light at ellice... and then drive straight through to Keewatin without stopping once if you were the lead car and drove the speed limit the lights would change at just the right time so you did not even have to slow down Then they put in a new light at the Womens hospital... and completely leave it out of the pattern... and now it messes everything up.

The way I see it, the extra northbound lane on Kenaston would be a turning lane onto Academy. Full length turning lanes take a lot of pressure off the thru-way lanes. Check Northbound Donald leading up to the midtown bridge, with the turn off lane which gets you to Main...

Not saying that Kenaston is worth the money to upgrade, but no doubt it would improve traffic flow.

grumpy old man wrote:Shammy proudly announced the traffic lights have been synchronized. I believe him. Trouble is I don't believe they have a freaking clue how to do that.

Have they actually been done?

It would be nice to have all the lights connected to a central computer. With little warning lights when an emergency vehicle is coming. Maybe next century. >.<

I thought that that was what we were getting...or something similar. ??

Maybe some of the lights have been done. I drove home yesterday from Polo Park north on St James and not once had to stop at a light until I was on Keewatin and Inkster come to think of it. And I never ran a yellow either, nor did I speed through anything. I thought about it as I was walking into the Wellness Institute that either I left a bit early or traffic was light but neither were the case. I made it from Polo Park to the Wellness in 18 minutes.

JTF wrote:

grumpy old man wrote:Shammy proudly announced the traffic lights have been synchronized. I believe him. Trouble is I don't believe they have a freaking clue how to do that.

Have they actually been done?

Apparently so. Still however they missed the boat synchronization wise IMO. They need to place sensors in the road such that when there is traffic in turning lanes the lights manage that. But if no traffic then manage that as well. Ditto with traffic in crossing lanes. If there is no east west traffic on Corydon then don't stop traffic on Kenaston...

death128 wrote:It would be nice to have all the lights connected to a central computer. With little warning lights when an emergency vehicle is coming. Maybe next century. >.<

Some jurisdictions install wireless systems to allow emergency management of traffic lights.

Some use camers to moniter the flow , but this being wpg we send the traffic dept out to count cars on a Sunday morning for something to do.

Look what I found on page 18 of 26 of the local topics!
I skipped lots of topics that should be discussed over the long weekend!