REALLY STUPID Mass transit changes

grumpy old man wrote:Perhaps one lane is installed. Have it one way during rush hours and then two way, with "right-of-ways" to manage flow.

I don't know, if it chews up too much real estate maybe we expand the roadway.

Or maybe not.

Anyhoo I'm not advocating it. I'm trying to have a conversation around it...

Anything thing is possible but at the end of the day the discussion was more around diamond lanes and what could be better than diamond lanes as an interim fix to the completion of phase 2 of the south BRT line to the U of M.

A busway in the middle of Pembina serves no other purpose than a pair of diamond lanes, but would now be in the middle of the road adding complexity and width to the system to accommodate for stops and pedestrian access to the stops.

All of the buses would still have to stop at lights like traffic and also make turning left on Pembina that much more complicated as traffic would have watch for buses proceeding through the green lights.

It doesn't really make much sense from the get go.

Bill (sputnik), now that you have your BRT, you should consider early retirement.

My name isn't Bill.

It was a play on words.

1. Pedestrians can walk accross the roadway, they do it all the time when they cross the street.

2. Bus traffic is so infrequent (once per 10 minutes?) that the probability of cars being in the turning lane or in the way would be slim. Even then, the bus could wait or slow down if it sees a car in the lane. Education would be needed that busses have the right away at all times..

3. The main problem with the transit system is the fact there is speed limits and numerous stops along the way. A main thorough fare exclusive to busses with limited stops could be supplemented by main busses running along pembina.

If you allow for an 80 km/h speed limit, one way system during mornings/rush hour. The bus would be able to cruise past traffic at high speeds significantly lowering the time it would take to get from pembina/jubilee to u of m.

Yes this system is practically in place with 'superbusses' but they key is that they are away from traffic and not stuck behind 30, 40, 50 cars waiting at a red light.

They main objective is to get more people to use the bus. There needs to be a reason for people to use the bus and this idea promotes that the bus is FASTER than driving your car. Even if its not faster, it should be as fast as a car. Currently transit takes much too long.

It has merit.



Alternatively, WInnipeg transit should have, istead of installing GPS systems in their busses, installed electronic coin toll systems. This prevents the massive cheating of the system they observe on a daily basis, even cash tolls are a small percentage of ridership im sure it still limits profits.

the electronic systems are coming this fall

What Bretton Woods said...

Sputnik on the topic of traffic lights, A system could be implemented much like they already have for ambulances that changes the lights when an oncoming bus is approaching the lights. This could be done very simply, ie a sensor 100m in front of the lights on the busroute that when triggered would trigger a yellow in all directions, and transit priority light for the one way. This may impact trafic, but with super route busses so infrequent, it may not be that much of a nuisance.

In fact, it may be a benefit to traffic if people think it's unfair, thus giving the bus an advantage, thus making it more attractive. The main idea of this route would have to be that it is a DIRECT route, other than a maximum of 4 stops. It should only take 5 minutes to get to U of M with this system from jubilee.

Secondly,
I think diamond lanes need to be re-looked at. Why is there a diamond lane at all times on the right 3rd lane of St Marys coming over the norway bridge. All it does it put in a bottle neck before the bridge and leads to people dangerously swerving around and switching lanes to get ahead of others. Why not open it up or at least put a time limit on the diamond? There are so many examples of this all over Winnipeg.

I have sent a proposal of my one lane system to the mayor, im sure i will not get a response back.

If the bus manages to only pass about 3 to 5 cars in a diamond lane stretch, then the lane is useless. The only way Winnipeg will have a FASTER transit system is if we use the railway lines and electric power. Electric power is cheaper and does not pollute the air. Also, we wouldn't have to worry about snow plowing along the tracks, since the transit vehicles would be fitted with their own snow ploughs, just like trains. How and where will they put all the snow that falls on the BRT in the winter? Will they melt it with blowtorches?

As to a subway system, it just can't be done. If we were to dig a north-south route, the concrete construction would act as a dam, blocking the natural underground flow of water. You'd have floods everywhere and sewer backups, even after heavy thunderstorms in the summer.

There is a bus priority signal in place now which stops traffic for a couple seconds allowing a bus to take the lead. I presume this was put in place because too many cars did not yield to buses at red lights causing the bus to be forced in place at a bus stop.

But the point is well made. If a transitway is considered down the Pembina median there are options available to mitigate some of the hurdles.

Electrician wrote:How and where will they put all the snow that falls on the BRT in the winter? Will they melt it with blowtorches?

How and where do they put all the snow that falls on pembina hwy in the winter? Do they melt it with blowtorches?

No, They plow it into trucks and haul it away, just like every other street. This of course would be an increased cost but could be easily managed and is necessary in Winnipeg.

When it comes to rapid transit and some other issues, some are as plain (read backwards-minded) as a Manitoba grown Red Potato.

I admit to not reading every post in this thread, but having taken the 160 and the 170 both of which go down pembina, I can say they are impressive for small town thinking Winnipeg. It also cut a noticable amount of time of the trip having no car traffic from pretty much main and river all the way to pembina and jubilee. For those who've had to travel U of M to downtown it takes the worst section out. Super quick to downtown from jubilee, how long to we have someone try and race it in their car, the car would be hard pressed for sure.

casualchris wrote:small town thinking Winnipeg

Feel free to show me a city of ~700,000 people with an exponentially better rapid transit system.

Electrician wrote:If the bus manages to only pass about 3 to 5 cars in a diamond lane stretch, then the lane is useless. The only way Winnipeg will have a FASTER transit system is if we use the railway lines and electric power. Electric power is cheaper and does not pollute the air. Also, we wouldn't have to worry about snow plowing along the tracks, since the transit vehicles would be fitted with their own snow ploughs, just like trains. How and where will they put all the snow that falls on the BRT in the winter? Will they melt it with blowtorches?

An LRT system would not be superior in this scenario.

The BRT cost $38 million per kilometer, an LRT would cost around $100-125 million per kilometer. That more than takes care of the savings of using an electric system.

The LRT would also be slower for the average user. People right now are able to use the busway without switching buses. The express buses pick them up in their community and then uses the by-pass to move past traffic between Jubilee and downtown. If it was a rail based system the users would have to transfer from a bus to a train at Jubilee and then from the train and onto another bus at Main @ River to get downtown. How is that faster? Its not like the trains would travel at a higher rate of speed compared to buses. In Calgary and Edmonton the trains top out at about 80 km/h.

We dont actually have the ambulance change the lights system here in winnipeg. At least not on the majority of our lights. They are far too old to be able to do that.

I believe the fire department uses that technology. Wouldn't the ambulance service not use it also?

IF we do have it, its only on a couple of lights. And I could be wrong but I dont think we do have it.

Deank wrote:We dont actually have the ambulance change the lights system here in winnipeg. At least not on the majority of our lights. They are far too old to be able to do that.

1981 wasn't that long ago.