unions unions unions

In a perfect world there would be no unions.

Unions only exist because some employers don't treat their employees properly.

Treat your employees properly and there won't be any need for unions.

Unfortunately that will never happen because of the inbred union mentality that's pervasive in alot of union shops.

I've always believed it to be the government's job to make sure that workers are treated fairly...afterall, they make the laws and enforce them.

Unions are nothing more than an expensive middleman.

St Norberter has hit the nail on the head. Unions came into force because of abusive employers, who refused to pay their workers a fair, living wage.
Of course if you check the history you will find that the police were used in many cases to prevent workers from assembling to air their complaints.
If you check out Winnipeg's famous 1919 strike, and do some rsearch , lo and behold the company's owners were on city council or had very close financial ties to city council.
Not much has changed, except today the union is there to try and get that magical living wage, which is just perfect if it works for everyone.
I do not like to see that a person's wage has to be dumbed down to that of someone working in China for 24 cents an hour.
I believe in some protection , by way of import duties so that the product is taxed at a rate that would allow Canadian workers to earn their $20 and more per hour, so that they can provide for their family.
This is opposite to free trade, but why shouldn't we be willing to pay a little more for products, rather than the Winnipeg attitude of the cheapest is the only thing acceptable.

Cheapest in my experience means , in many cases , not all, that the product is the shoddiest and falls apart the quickest!

Wow...I'm finding myself wholeheartedly agreeing with Rosen. Very well put I might add. Free trade is what is putting the nail in the coffin of the middle class.

JTF wrote:I've always believed it to be the government's job to make sure that workers are treated fairly...afterall, they make the laws and enforce them.

Unions are nothing more than an expensive middleman.

How do you propose government enforce the laws any more than they currently do? Unless you have the financial backing to compete with your employer's legal counsel, you'll lose the majority of time in court. That's why the labour laws as they stand are so pointless, the onus is on the employee to prove that there claim is legitimate. It only becomes increasingly difficult for the average joe when the employer hires top notch legal counsel.

At least with a union your on somewhat equal footing should the need ever arise to fight anything out in court.

I guess you've never dealt with Labour Standards eh....they take complaints and act on them. If the employers is doing something he shouldn't, they'll go after him....and believe me, the government has a lot more money than anyone else does.

Heh, I've heard some unions are particular about who they'll go to bat for. Many peeps have suggested their grievance was not supported by their union.

Hell, the raison d'etre of the unions for a very long time now has had nothing to do with helping employees (their members), but is rather about helping the union itself. It's a business.

grumpyrom wrote:

JTF wrote:I've always believed it to be the government's job to make sure that workers are treated fairly...afterall, they make the laws and enforce them.

Unions are nothing more than an expensive middleman.

How do you propose government enforce the laws any more than they currently do? Unless you have the financial backing to compete with your employer's legal counsel, you'll lose the majority of time in court. That's why the labour laws as they stand are so pointless, the onus is on the employee to prove that there claim is legitimate. It only becomes increasingly difficult for the average joe when the employer hires top notch legal counsel.

At least with a union your on somewhat equal footing should the need ever arise to fight anything out in court.

Wow, with the expectation that you're going to court with your employer every time you disagree, it must be hell where you work.

rosencrentz wrote:St Norberter has hit the nail on the head. Unions came into force because of abusive employers, who refused to pay their workers a fair, living wage.
Of course if you check the history you will find that the police were used in many cases to prevent workers from assembling to air their complaints.
If you check out Winnipeg's famous 1919 strike, and do some rsearch , lo and behold the company's owners were on city council or had very close financial ties to city council.
Not much has changed, except today the union is there to try and get that magical living wage, which is just perfect if it works for everyone.
I do not like to see that a person's wage has to be dumbed down to that of someone working in China for 24 cents an hour.
I believe in some protection , by way of import duties so that the product is taxed at a rate that would allow Canadian workers to earn their $20 and more per hour, so that they can provide for their family.
This is opposite to free trade, but why shouldn't we be willing to pay a little more for products, rather than the Winnipeg attitude of the cheapest is the only thing acceptable.

Cheapest in my experience means , in many cases , not all, that the product is the shoddiest and falls apart the quickest!

I think you are assuming that I'm in favour of unions. Which is absolutely not the case. If an employer is unfair to their workers and unwillling to be flexible, then they deserve to suffer through the scourge of having a union. The problem is that a lot of businesses treat their employees fairly and are still saddled with unions. Unions generally act to self perpetuate themselves, they do not act in the interests of the employee.

I worked at a place where there was a threat of bringing in a union because some employees did not like the fact that they had to wait as long as they did to get on the profit share plan, and they felt the starting wage was too low ( even though increases were quite frequent, and top end was generous). The employer agreed to most of the requests. But you know who got screwed? The long term employees who were willing to stick with the company. They saw their profirt share amounts go down and the frequency of their increases decrease, so some short term 6-month suckhole employee could get on the profit share plan. We also had another guy who had spent his whole life in a Union shop. He came to work for us, on the 2nd day told the plant Manager to f-off, because the plant manager told him to take out the garbage. When the plant manager told him he was fired his response was 'you can't fire me, this is a union shop', the plant manager was quick to point out not in this shop!

I think that unions do more good than bad, but I could be wrong!
I have never been in a union, but I remember back in 1919, when I couldn't earn a living wage and we went on a general strike.
The damn police killed one of us, for complaining.
That wasn't very nice. All we wanted was 2 cents an hour more. We couldn't afford to buy coal to heat our house!

back when i was in the coal handlers union, good ol isaih fishberg got the boss to give us a dime a week in addition to all the coal we could steal.

That is the point they have done their good and their really is not much use for them now as labour laws are so much better.

I don't think that unions have necessarily outlived their usefulness, but I do believe that their practices and the mentality is not applicable to todays workforce. Its not a matter of getting an extra 2 cents for more coal, but that attitude remains. Check your watch, its the 21st century.

unions can definately still serve a purpose, but there have just been too many bad instances lately, in fact almost anything we ever hear about what unions are doing is either bad for thier membership, or bad for the public at large.

Look at how many people started to question donations to winnipeg harvest this past christmas.

By Winnipeg Sun

The Manitoba government said it reached an agreement with the Manitoba Nurses Union Friday.

Finance Minister Rosann Wowchuk says the deal will protect front-line health services while managing very difficult budgets over the next few years.

Wowchuk says that will provide the government with necessary short-term fiscal predictability while maintaining long-term sustainability.

The 31/2-year deal will include no wage increases for two years but a one-time lump-sum payment of 2% followed by a 4% increase in year three. It also addresses long-term concerns of Manitoba nurses through a cost-of-living agreement for all health-care workers by 2018.

In addition, nurses who reach 20 years on the job will get a long-term service increase of 2%.

“Our five-year plan remains on track to emerge stronger than ever from the global recession,” said Wowchuk. “These negotiations are never easy during tough times, but today we have landed on an agreement that protects health services and recognizes the important work of nurses.”

This seems very reasonable...

This seems very reasonable...for such an incestuous relationship.

If we want to keep them it is as they have to keep up with the other provinces.

thankfully someone gave their head a shake and realized we DONT want to play the keep up with the joneses game.

Deank wrote:thankfully someone gave their head a shake and realized we DONT want to play the keep up with the joneses game.

It will be interesting to see if others drop the game or keep on trying to play it.

grumpy old man wrote:Heh, I've heard some unions are particular about who they'll go to bat for. Many peeps have suggested their grievance was not supported by their union.

My next door neighbor is experiencing this very problem. The union is not helping her, the shop steward has even said he wished he could do more to help but the union executives refuse to get involved.

The labor board is stepping in to help as is the Human rights department. Her case is a blatant violation of human rights. The company and union she works for has had settled out of court a great deal of times due to Human rights and labor standard violations.


I Also know a woman who was in a Union and complained when a junior person got a job promotion. She was told by the union to mind her own business. Turns out the junior girl was the daughter of a high ranking union official. Not only that it was a government job too, and guess what? That high ranking union guy is a huge NDP contributor and supporter. What happened to the lady who complained? She quit and went to work in a non-union job and is happy.

Just like everything else on this planet, Corruption creeps into and grabs hold of the powerful. No matter who, the corporate boss or the union boss, both are corruptible.

Ditto my wife she has gotten the shaft by her union too and for all the money she has paid them they are full of it . The NDP and the unions are full of sh1t .

LivingDead wrote:

grumpy old man wrote:Heh, I've heard some unions are particular about who they'll go to bat for. Many peeps have suggested their grievance was not supported by their union.

My next door neighbor is experiencing this very problem. The union is not helping her, the shop steward has even said he wished he could do more to help but the union executives refuse to get involved.

The labor board is stepping in to help as is the Human rights department. Her case is a blatant violation of human rights. The company and union she works for has had settled out of court a great deal of times due to Human rights and labor standard violations.


I Also know a woman who was in a Union and complained when a junior person got a job promotion. She was told by the union to mind her own business. Turns out the junior girl was the daughter of a high ranking union official. Not only that it was a government job too, and guess what? That high ranking union guy is a huge NDP contributor and supporter. What happened to the lady who complained? She quit and went to work in a non-union job and is happy.

Just like everything else on this planet, Corruption creeps into and grabs hold of the powerful. No matter who, the corporate boss or the union boss, both are corruptible.

This nonsense will continue to happen until people start to call the unions on this behaviour.

For $25.00 you can file a Statement of Claim which becomes public. The union has to respond publically to the Claim.

I have very little sympathy for people that don't send the food back when it's burnt if you catch my drift.

Pavolo wrote:Ditto my wife she has gotten the shaft by her union too and for all the money she has paid them they are full of it . The NDP and the unions are full of sh1t .

You heard it here first, folks.