Discussion place for unions if you feel like it.
the winnipeg sandbox
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unions unions unions
+7
St Norberter
grumpy old man
grumpyrom
Freeman
AdamX
Bartron
Deank
11 posters
Go to page : 1, 2 
Message [Page 1 of 2]
2 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:26 am
Bartron
major-contributor
Lets unionize the sandbox!
3 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:41 am
Deank
contributor eminence
would we be better off...
if every single current job was unionized?
or
if unions never existed?
if every single current job was unionized?
or
if unions never existed?
4 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:27 am
AdamX
contributor
i like my union.. but i'm also in a job that cant strike, so its not like we would ever affect anyone else anyways.
i think some unions are good and some we could do without. depends on the leadership and the people and the type of job etc. etc.
i think some unions are good and some we could do without. depends on the leadership and the people and the type of job etc. etc.
5 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:50 am
Freeman
uber-contributor
The concept of unions in that they provide a single voice to negotiate with employers for pay, benefits, etc is OK. However, (theres alwasya a however), most unions have gone overboard and stick their faces where they don't belong, like politics, and trying to interfere with management rights. They would better serve their membership to stick to their mandate. Classic example, is buddy from CUPE trying to convince us that the city needs more of its own snow clearing equipment to provide "competition" to the private sector. He obviously slept through that part of class.
6 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:18 am
grumpyrom
major-contributor
Why not if they can prove they can do it cheaper than the private sector? If they can make a business case for it, then why not? I thought saving the city money was a good thing? Worst case scenerio is their bid comes in higher than the private sector competition and they don't get to do the work.
I worked for one of the large private sector contractors, and I can tell you for a fact there is a lot of collusion amongst them when it comes to bidding on the snow clearing contracts. They all make a very tidy profit from it, now that they know the city doesn't have the equipment to provide the service themselves.
I worked for one of the large private sector contractors, and I can tell you for a fact there is a lot of collusion amongst them when it comes to bidding on the snow clearing contracts. They all make a very tidy profit from it, now that they know the city doesn't have the equipment to provide the service themselves.
7 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:21 am
Freeman
uber-contributor
Theres that evil word "profit".
Then why doesn't CUPE make a business case and show everyone that they can do it cheaper than private business? Maybe its just easier for them to shoot their mouths off without being confused by facts.
Then why doesn't CUPE make a business case and show everyone that they can do it cheaper than private business? Maybe its just easier for them to shoot their mouths off without being confused by facts.
8 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:38 am
Guest
Guest
Well, Comrades never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh.
9 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:58 am
Deank
contributor eminence
"Worst case scenerio is their bid comes in higher than the private sector competition and they don't get to do the work.
"
and in that worst case we have a wack of CITY equipment sitting idle
"They all make a very tidy profit from it, now that they know the city doesn't have the equipment to provide the service themselves."
And CUPE members make a tidy profit off the contracts when they had them as well.
If CUPE is so sure they can do a cheaper and better job, why not buy thier own equipment and bid?
"
and in that worst case we have a wack of CITY equipment sitting idle
"They all make a very tidy profit from it, now that they know the city doesn't have the equipment to provide the service themselves."
And CUPE members make a tidy profit off the contracts when they had them as well.
If CUPE is so sure they can do a cheaper and better job, why not buy thier own equipment and bid?
10 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:02 am
grumpy old man
administrator
Talk is cheap Deank. They like to think they know better than everybody else. It amuses me no end when unions would tell business how to run their business. If the tall foreheads in union shops were so friggen smart they'd be running their own businesses.
Heck they can't even manage their own unionized employees at their own offices. Imagine a union office going on strike because the union wanted to slash staff wages. Chuckles galore.
Hypocrites.
Heck they can't even manage their own unionized employees at their own offices. Imagine a union office going on strike because the union wanted to slash staff wages. Chuckles galore.
Hypocrites.
11 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 am
grumpyrom
major-contributor
Why would they buy equipment to put together a business case for it? Are you telling me they can't put together a business plan, and do the math without physically buying equipment?
All I said was let them put together a case for it, and if they can prove that they can do it cheaper then give them the opportunity to do so. If not, then continue with the status quo.
If you guys think the city is getting a great deal on snow clearing as it stands, then you have no idea. The contractors are laughing their heads off now that they have the city at their mercy.
All I said was let them put together a case for it, and if they can prove that they can do it cheaper then give them the opportunity to do so. If not, then continue with the status quo.
If you guys think the city is getting a great deal on snow clearing as it stands, then you have no idea. The contractors are laughing their heads off now that they have the city at their mercy.
12 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:12 am
Deank
contributor eminence
on that Dragons Den thing where they were "spending" a $20 billion stimilus package.... the big 3 refused to come one themselves to pass leader of the union buzz came in.
The guy before him was umm Canadian Tax Payer federation ?? yeah something like that. That had proposed some good tax cuts.
So instead of Buzz pitching his plan the first thing he does is come on stage and shoot down the Tax cuts plan (no other "contestant" even talked about other plans, never mind shoot them down). Apparently according to him us all keeping more of our money is the worst idea in the world.
The guy before him was umm Canadian Tax Payer federation ?? yeah something like that. That had proposed some good tax cuts.
So instead of Buzz pitching his plan the first thing he does is come on stage and shoot down the Tax cuts plan (no other "contestant" even talked about other plans, never mind shoot them down). Apparently according to him us all keeping more of our money is the worst idea in the world.
13 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:17 am
Deank
contributor eminence
and then there is the... I should not have to do that part of unions.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/hospital_night_staff_upset38315504.html
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/hospital_night_staff_upset38315504.html
14 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:19 am
Guest
Guest
Ironically, Unions have become nothing more than Big Business. That's funny actually.
They are no longer interested in 'the working man bullcrap' but rather in assuring their own existance within the system they started.
They are no longer interested in 'the working man bullcrap' but rather in assuring their own existance within the system they started.
15 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:31 am
Freeman
uber-contributor
grumpyrom wrote:Why would they buy equipment to put together a business case for it? Are you telling me they can't put together a business plan, and do the math without physically buying equipment?
All I said was let them put together a case for it, and if they can prove that they can do it cheaper then give them the opportunity to do so. If not, then continue with the status quo.
If you guys think the city is getting a great deal on snow clearing as it stands, then you have no idea. The contractors are laughing their heads off now that they have the city at their mercy.
So, telll us why the private sector contracts are so bad. Facts and figures, no union rhetoric.
16 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:38 am
grumpy old man
administrator
I'm not surprised there is collusion going on with city contracts. But should some contractors collude they will eventually be caught. Plus there are the ethical contractors. There are some of those no?
But collusion is a union MO no? I believe the union picks a target (say GM) and negotiates with GM. Then they demand the other manufacturers (Ford and Chrysler) sign the same contract.
Sounds like collusion to me.
But collusion is a union MO no? I believe the union picks a target (say GM) and negotiates with GM. Then they demand the other manufacturers (Ford and Chrysler) sign the same contract.
Sounds like collusion to me.
17 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:39 am
Deank
contributor eminence
"Why would they buy equipment to put together a business case for it? Are you telling me they can't put together a business plan, and do the math without physically buying equipment?"
How about you tell me, why they have not actually put a business plan forward then?
And lets say their contract wins... who buys the equipment? The city or them? So who pays when the private sector bids the next year and wins... what happens to that equipment sitting there?
How about you tell me, why they have not actually put a business plan forward then?
And lets say their contract wins... who buys the equipment? The city or them? So who pays when the private sector bids the next year and wins... what happens to that equipment sitting there?
18 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:42 am
Deank
contributor eminence
This goes back to an American city 15 years ago. The costs for garbage pick up spiraled as the unions kept making more and more demands. The city said ENOUGH.... you want a job with us... BID on it.
The Union lost the first year
The Union lost the second year
The Union finally got a contract in the 3rd year.
The Union lost the first year
The Union lost the second year
The Union finally got a contract in the 3rd year.
19 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:43 am
Guest
Guest
Personally, I think we've seen a big decline in the level of workmanship since the change.
If I shovelled the walk the way the city cleans the streets, The Muse would make me re-do my work.
...and don't get me started on the number of elm trees these fcukheads kill each winter....
If I shovelled the walk the way the city cleans the streets, The Muse would make me re-do my work.
...and don't get me started on the number of elm trees these fcukheads kill each winter....
20 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:47 am
grumpy old man
administrator
It all comes down to contract wording and competent supervision. If I run a snow clearing operation I would want to keep my eligibility year after year.
If there was contract wording that stipulated precisely how snow was to be cleared and there were consequences (monetary penalties for example) you can be assured the snow would be cleared properly.
If there was contract wording that stipulated precisely how snow was to be cleared and there were consequences (monetary penalties for example) you can be assured the snow would be cleared properly.
21 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:51 am
Deank
contributor eminence
And ... as to damages stuff like curbs and what not.. the contractors are responsible for repairing damage done.
22 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:54 am
Guest
Guest
Of course it comes down to competent contract administration...that's the problem.
One must remember that there are a set number of machines available to clean snow in our area....so we are between a rock and a hard place.
In the past the city has had a problem getting enough equipment out after a storm, as the same contractors do private work as well.
Unfortunately, that is a fact of life.
One must remember that there are a set number of machines available to clean snow in our area....so we are between a rock and a hard place.
In the past the city has had a problem getting enough equipment out after a storm, as the same contractors do private work as well.
Unfortunately, that is a fact of life.
23 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:55 am
Guest
Guest
Deank wrote:And ... as to damages stuff like curbs and what not.. the contractors are responsible for repairing damage done.
I'm told by the city that they must prove which operator did the damage...of course they can't.
24 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:00 pm
Freeman
uber-contributor
The supervision and contract administration is prbably done by the same guys who are part of the union that doesn't want the work contracted out in the first place.
25 Re: unions unions unions Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:01 pm
St Norberter
major-contributor
In a perfect world there would be no unions.
Unions only exist because some employers don't treat their employees properly.
Treat your employees properly and there won't be any need for unions.
Unfortunately that will never happen because of the inbred union mentality that's pervasive in alot of union shops.
Unions only exist because some employers don't treat their employees properly.
Treat your employees properly and there won't be any need for unions.
Unfortunately that will never happen because of the inbred union mentality that's pervasive in alot of union shops.
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