What "good" does CUPE (or Unions in General) do for its members?

Ignoring the gains that Unions in general have obtained for workers across the spectrum Canada wide.

What good does a Union do today other then ensure that all workers get a raise regardless of effort or ability?

Please everyone I really want to know so let this be a discussion not an Attack on Unions. (Even though the question is prefaced as an attack on unions)

Yes. We need to be CIVIL in our discourse. By attacking each other we will abruptly end the discussion and no one will learn from it.

K, so I'll be the first to dive in. As far as the benefit unions bring to their members, there certainly is strength in a collective voice to negotiate the employment contract. However, unions are too bent on protecting their members at all costs regardless of the situation. Under law, an employer has an absolute right to employment, however, unions do a great disservice to their members by protecting those whose conduct is not worthy of protection.

Unions have become far too political over the years. Their mandate is to negotiate the best employment contract between the employer and their members. I'm not sure how supporting any political flavour (NDP) is part of that mandate.

I strongly disapprove of their tactics of personalizing every issues. Its Katz forcing the civic strike, its Harper giving tax breaks ot big business on the backs of the workers. Notice how there is no comment on the Selinger government!

We have even seen in this forum that there is a feeling that unions speak for many people, many who are not even their members.

Lastly, WW I is over, WW II is over, even the Cold War is over, and so is the Industrial Revolution of the 1800's and the 1919 General Strikes. As Bob Dylan put it "the times, they are a changing", yet unions continue to live in the past. This is 2011. Get with the time. Technology is here to stay. There are massive workers "rights" entrenched in legislation, so unions should get with the times, work with the employers (remember, they pay the bills) and do what is best, not just for their members who are entrenched in work processes that are decades behind, but modernize the workforce. Retrain employees to adapt to the new technologies. Its a case of either adapting or, well, check out the Royal Tyrell Museum to see what happens if you don'.

How was that for civility?

For the most part I agree.

However, I disagree with the assertion that unions protect their members.

Unions protect no one but themselves. They are well beyond protecting the 'working Joe/Jane and have become a seperate industry all in themselves....and a "third tax" on workers.

Not bad Freeman.

It is the arrogance of the unions that sticks in my craw.

The notion that it was the unions that built businesses to become what they are today is absurd.

The notion that unions KNOW better how to run a business is absurd. There are many examples of companies selling their business to union members only to see it go under in short order proves that.

That said I'm sure there are examples of business successes after employee buy-outs.

Not touching this one. Peoples opinions are way to ingrained to even bother trying and I don't feel like typing for the next hour.

That's too bad. Here is a legitimate opportunity to try to show us where you believe we are wrong.

But I'm not wrong!

Great post, Freeman!

grumpyrom wrote:Not touching this one. Peoples opinions are way to ingrained to even bother trying and I don't feel like typing for the next hour.

I really wish you would. I am trying to understand what use they are. Not what use they are not. I tend to agree with quite a bit (not all) of what has been said so far and without a differing position I have nothing to even start a trigger of a thought process the other way,.

C'mon. It's pretty hard to justify some of the actions of the unions these days.

They have become an over-priced third party now days imo.

They do some good, but not enough to justify their positions any longer.

I guess I will take this offline.

And yet, we as voters dont get a say because the deal is automatically ratified at council. How bizarre is that, the one of our greatest expenses gets decided on by bureaucrats who essentially answer to no one?

also of note... Maybe CUPE was scared shitless when the realized the mediator was the same one that F'd up the tembec mediation?

Most of you are too young to remember what was happening in Winnipeg in 1919! The workers were not being paid a living wage, and were helpless in their complaints being ignored. When the workers banded together , the City had the policemen attack the workers for not working!
Unions are there to protect the workers!

rosencrentz wrote:Unions are there to protect the workers!

I thought that was Michael Moore's job.

" the City had the policemen attack the workers for not working!"

incorrect


the city had SPECIAL CONSTABLES attack the workers.

Deank wrote:" the City had the policemen attack the workers for not working!"

incorrect


the city had SPECIAL CONSTABLES attack the workers.

Very true, and that makes all the difference.

I bet you those "special constables were hired right from the pubs?
DeanK- are you sure that there were no regular police involved?

The strike ended in "Bloody Saturday" when the Royal North-West Mounted Police attacked a gathering of strike supporters. Two strikers were killed.
Harpers Government goon squad attacked unarmed "peaceful" workers!
Has Harper ever apologized for this??

rosencrentz wrote:The strike ended in "Bloody Saturday" when the Royal North-West Mounted Police attacked a gathering of strike supporters. Two strikers were killed.
Harpers Government goon squad attacked unarmed "peaceful" workers!
Has Harper ever apologized for this??

I think we need to change your name to RosenTroll