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Smoking ban faces latest challenge

+7
FlyingRat
AGEsAces
holly golightly
Goth_chic
Deank
Freeman
grumpy old man
11 posters

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1Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:41 am

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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Does this sound odd to anyone else? There is a law banning smoking in public places. This law is designed to protect non-smokers and employees alike.

It seems ludicrous that anyone would fight the law. It strikes me as incredibly selfish that in the interests of their business (a casino no less) they would completely disregard the health of their employees.

Another issue that intrigues me is the notion of two sets of rules in Manitoba. I believe that the Chiefs keep demanding equality (and so they should), but only on their terms and when it is convenient to do so.

By STEVE LAMBERT, THE CANADIAN PRESS
The Manitoba government is facing another legal challenge over its attempts to ban smoking in public places.

The Brokenhead Ojibwa Nation filed a statement of claim in Court of Queen's Bench yesterday that argues the province has no authority to require reserves to go smoke-free.

"The province is trying to force First Nations through policy and economics to do what it cannot do by law," the band council north of Winnipeg said in a written statement.

Manitoba was among the first provinces to ban smoking in public places in 2004. The government readily admitted the law did not cover areas of federal jurisdiction such as prisons, military bases and aboriginal reserves.

To try to convince casinos and gambling lounges on reserves to follow the law, the government has made smoke-free air a condition of any new or renewed gaming licence. The Brokenhead Nation, which is setting up a new video lottery lounge, calls the move a complete disregard for the right of First Nations to govern themselves.

Gaming Minister Dave Chomiak was not immediately available to react to the lawsuit.

It's the second major legal battle that has erupted over the smoking ban.

In 2005, Robert Jenkinson, a non-aboriginal bar owner in Treherne, Man., argued the law violated his right to equal treatment under the law. He had to stop his customers from smoking, he argued, while some aboriginal gambling lounges on reserves a few kilometres away could let their patrons puff to their heart's content.

A Court of Queen's Bench judge sided with Jenkinson and said the law violated the Charter of Rights, but the Court of Appeal later overturned that decision. Jenkinson was fined $2,500.

The application of provincial laws on reserves is a grey area. In theory, at least, smoking bans in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and other provinces apply on aboriginal lands. But band councils can pass bylaws to allow smoking under the federal Indian Act.

2Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:46 am

Freeman

Freeman
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While I hate government imposed bans, the no smoking thing is about a healthy workplace. Over the years, I can remember the debates in the workplace between smokers and non smokers, but at the end of the day, everyone knows its just not healthy.

I fail to understand why the chiefs are making this an issue. Principle's are one thing, but this is just plain stupid on their part. And you wonder why people think these organizations are a joke?

3Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:50 am

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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This is NOT principle. There can be but one reason they would fight this fight: profit. They believe that such exclusivity will give them a competitive edge over their competitors. Profit over their people's health. Nice.

4Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:55 am

Freeman

Freeman
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Exactly, they portray the issue as principle under self government, but we're all stupid and don't see what is really behind it. I wonder what their response would be if the question was put to them "Do you feel the right of self government supercedes a safe and healthy environment for your employees and patrons?"

5Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:35 am

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

yup totally exactly. Or did everyone think the Native Casino North of Winnipeg went over so well because it was in such a fantastic location? NOPE!.. smoking smoking smoking was its huge reason for success...

6Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:29 am

Goth_chic

Goth_chic
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I still cannot believe that people want to sit in a smoke filled room??? WTF is wrong with people? I was a smoker at one time in my life and even when I did smoke I couldn't handle being in an enclosed space full of smokers puffing away.

Some of the people I work with are smokers and they were all complaining about how cold it is outside and having to go out to smoke....I say keep them outside far away from doorways. :-)

7Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:32 am

Goth_chic

Goth_chic
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In Vancouver it is illegal to smoke at a bus stop if you are caught I think it's a $500.00 fine (The Olympics is the reason). They finally outlawed smoking on patios in Vancouver.....I bet Winnipeg is close behind. I have no problem with people smoking on bar patios but I have a problem with it on restaurant patios.

8Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:39 am

holly golightly

holly golightly
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I have a problem with smoking on a patio where food is served regardless if it is a restaurant patio, a bar patio or a lounge patio. If it is a bar only where there is no food being served, fine.

9Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:43 am

Deank

Deank
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I have a problem with the government saying.. DONT SMOKE DONT SMOKE DONT SMOKE!!!!

And then allowing cigarettes to be sold and just heavily taxing it to make money off of it.

10Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:47 am

Freeman

Freeman
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I, too am a reformed smoker, so I've earned the right to be obnoxious about smoking. ITS NOT HEALTHY. If you want to kill yourself, be my guest, but don't take me with you. How can anyone in good conscience take any type of official stand that allows smoking?

11Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:50 am

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Actually, in Manitoba...it is illegal to smoke within 3m of a doorway, window, or air intake vent.

That's never enforced....but it's on the books.

As far as the law for casinos, bars, etc. I hate it...I hate any stupid laws...especially those that deal with choices people make for their own person.

Yes, second-hand smoke sucks...then don't go to that establishment. Don't work there. Don't encourage the business.

Even when I was a kid I found it funny that a restaurant would have a smoking/non-smoking section...but there were no enclosed area to separate the two.

What COULD be passed, is a law that says "if your business is going to allow smoking inside, it must be in an enclosed, well-ventilated room, that has no public access directly from the outside, other than a secured emergency exit. (ie. people can't accidentally walk in from the outside into the smoke). Employees should be given the choice to work in the area, or the room must be vacated and smoke cleared before they are required to."

Something like that would allow businesses to keep smoking, but only the most desperate will follow the rule.

I'm actually surprised a bunch of smokers haven't assembled a class-action law suit against the government for discrimination and harassment. They might win enough to pay for their iron lungs Very Happy.

http://www.photage.ca

12Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:52 am

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Or...they could all get some of these:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/05/11/1178390517270.html

Apparently it was the big thing at some tech-expos this year.

http://www.photage.ca

13Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:01 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

1 additional thing Ages...the employees if they agree to work there must waive their right to sue the employer (and anyone else) later in life from damages due to smoking related work conditions.

14Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:10 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Deank wrote:1 additional thing Ages...the employees if they agree to work there must waive their right to sue the employer (and anyone else) later in life from damages due to smoking related work conditions.

To me...that's another matter entirely.

Those who choose to smoke, or work in smoking environments should be removed from health care financing for anything which is knowingly related to smoking.

So basically, if you smoke...and you get lung cancer...good luck to you...you're on your own.

http://www.photage.ca

15Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:14 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

agreed

16Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:19 pm

Goth_chic

Goth_chic
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

AGEsAces wrote:
Deank wrote:1 additional thing Ages...the employees if they agree to work there must waive their right to sue the employer (and anyone else) later in life from damages due to smoking related work conditions.

To me...that's another matter entirely.

Those who choose to smoke, or work in smoking environments should be removed from health care financing for anything which is knowingly related to smoking.

So basically, if you smoke...and you get lung cancer...good luck to you...you're on your own.

Same goes for those who are obese..you eat yourself into obesity and get diabetes, heart disease, cancer etc...too bad man you are on your own...it's all about choices.

17Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:21 pm

FlyingRat

FlyingRat
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moderator

If a band by-law can override provincial laws, than why can't a band by-law override the need for provincial gaming licenses???

18Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:34 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Goth_chic wrote:Same goes for those who are obese..you eat yourself into obesity and get diabetes, heart disease, cancer etc...too bad man you are on your own...it's all about choices.

I disagree with this.
Obesity is not necessarily by choice. Many times there are many other factors associated.

One of the BIGGEST factors is parents & education. Parents reward their kids with candies or treats, and the kid(s) grow up thinking that's supposed to happen. That having candy & treats are a good thing. And the kids gain weight...and many of them reach a point they can't turn back.

If you think about obesity...for most people it takes many years of eating improperly to reach the point they are considered obese. They don't necessarily choose to eat improperly...and even if they choose to eat correctly...their bodies don't react the same anymore.

I'd be considered obese, as is my wife...I don't claim to eat "healthy", but my wife does. She goes out of her way to try to eat what's "proper", and it doesn't seem to help.

Smoking, however, is something someone chooses from the beginning. It's not like parents are walking around sticking cigarettes in their kid's mouths. And smoking is something that if you quit today, your body will start to recover. You'll have a bit of withdrawal...but you won't die...you'll get better.

Try to quit eating for a couple of weeks...see how that goes.

http://www.photage.ca

19Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:35 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

FlyingRat wrote:If a band by-law can override provincial laws, than why can't a band by-law override the need for provincial gaming licenses???

Gaming licenses are federally issued, provincially regulated.

Band by-laws cannot override federal laws.

http://www.photage.ca

20Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:43 pm

Goth_chic

Goth_chic
uber-contributor
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AGEsAces wrote:
Goth_chic wrote:Same goes for those who are obese..you eat yourself into obesity and get diabetes, heart disease, cancer etc...too bad man you are on your own...it's all about choices.

I disagree with this.
Obesity is not necessarily by choice. Many times there are many other factors associated.

One of the BIGGEST factors is parents & education. Parents reward their kids with candies or treats, and the kid(s) grow up thinking that's supposed to happen. That having candy & treats are a good thing. And the kids gain weight...and many of them reach a point they can't turn back.

If you think about obesity...for most people it takes many years of eating improperly to reach the point they are considered obese. They don't necessarily choose to eat improperly...and even if they choose to eat correctly...their bodies don't react the same anymore.

I'd be considered obese, as is my wife...I don't claim to eat "healthy", but my wife does. She goes out of her way to try to eat what's "proper", and it doesn't seem to help.

Smoking, however, is something someone chooses from the beginning. It's not like parents are walking around sticking cigarettes in their kid's mouths. And smoking is something that if you quit today, your body will start to recover. You'll have a bit of withdrawal...but you won't die...you'll get better.

Try to quit eating for a couple of weeks...see how that goes.

Obesity which is medical is one thing...obesity which is because of being LAZY and chowing down McDonalds is another. Isn't it funny that when I was a kid we rarely saw obese people yet today we see a tonne (Pun intended) of them. Is there some new disease causing obesity? Or is it because some people cannot stop eating foods that are bad for them? Sorry obesity is on the rise and little of it has to do with underlying medical conditions, most of it has to do with poor eating habits and lack of exercise.

Eating greasy high calorie foods is also a choice. Sitting in front of the TV is another choice. Driving to the corner store to buy another bag of chips is also a choice.

Who said to quit eating? I say quit eating bad foods...keep a food journal. Why should I pay for your choices? Wink

21Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:45 pm

Goth_chic

Goth_chic
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

If smokers won't be covered under the system then neither should obese people (those without an underlying medical condition), alcoholics, drug abusers, those who speed and cause accidents, those who have unprotected sex and get HIV etc etc...all those are choices. No coverage for you! Pretty slippery slope if you ask me...

22Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:32 pm

holly golightly

holly golightly
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Sometimes you have to take into account why people are obese and what the underlying symptoms are. As well to eat healthy you have to pay more, why is that? So if you are on a limited, fixed income and you can't afford to eat healthy then what, you eat what you can afford. I am taking into account those people who choose to use their limited income on other rather non essential items such as Blue and McPhillips so for that scenario, I aggree, no funding, but there are those families who realistically can't afford to eat healthy and because of that the are forced to eat unhealthy and therefore the weight does add on.
And I also agree with the fact that in today's atmosphere being obese is a learned habit by the parents in that it is cheaper to feed their child Ramen noodles for lunch as opposed to a salad or a bag of chips as opposed to an apple, a glass of pop as opposed to a glass of juice or milk.

23Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:54 pm

Goth_chic

Goth_chic
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I don't find it that expensive to eat healthy. When it is $20.00 to feed a family of 4 at McDonalds, with that $20.00 you can buy stuff to make a salad, some whole wheat pasta and a healthy tomato sauce. You may even have enough to buy a loaf of whole grain bread to make garlic bread. My family isn't rich, we choose to eat healthy and spend our money on good healthy foods rather then alcohol, cigarettes and drugs. IMHO, it's all about priorities. And again it's comes down to being a CHOICE.

24Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:09 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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Eating healthy is indeed a choice. Fast foods are CONVENIENT. Mom and Dad don't have to spend too much time preparing supper. But...

There was a story in the WFP this weekend about how difficult it was for the poor of the north end to travel to a supermarket that has a wide variety of health foods. It seems this is very difficult for the poor to access. I expect a bus trip would not be too difficult but carting home more than four bags would be most challenging especially mid-winter.

The same problem occurs in Manitoba's north.

It should be noted that children brought up in such an environment might well be predetermined to be obese. I don't see how we can hold these people accountable for their upbringing.

Again, smoking is so very much a choice. Stop and immediately begin getting better. Losing weight does not happen overnight. It takes so much more.

25Smoking ban faces latest challenge Empty Re: Smoking ban faces latest challenge Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:11 pm

holly golightly

holly golightly
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I agree that it is all about priorities and choice but when your priority is feeding your child you make that choice to keep them fed regardless. And a lot of the obese children you see are from the low economic families. And if the choice is having to walk to get your groceries, where would you walk to in this weather, the corner store for a package of $.50 ramen noodles or to the grocery store 10 blocks or more for a salad and fixings, all the while having to bring your child with you. Yes it is all about choice but there are many things involved in those choices that lead these families, especially the single moms where they make the unhealthy choice.
An piece taken from the Winnipeg Harvest site with regards to budget and healthy eating.
  • Children rely on Winnipeg Harvest because their parents waste money gambling and smoking.

    Almost half of the people who are poor in Canada are single mothers. Manitoba continues to have among the worst child poverty rates in the country. Children are poor because their parents are poor. A Canadian study shows after a marriage separation, women immediately lose 23% of family income. Poor people spend a disproportionate amount of their incomes on rent and often take money from their food budget to cover shelter expenses. Parents who are poor routinely report going without food themselves to make sure their children eat. Cigarettes are an addiction and many believe smoking helps reduce depression and suppress appetites. Lottery tickets and other forms of gambling are advertised representing hope of escape.


  • Poor people don’t know how to budget properly.

    People working full time earning minimum wage make just over $16,575 (before tax) annually. Welfare rates are similar. It costs over $7,000 annually to rent a two bedroom apartment. It takes much creativity, and sacrifice, to pay for everything else on just $5,000 annually: food, transportation, clothing, heating, phone, childcare, medications and dental care. Budgeting is not the problem. Not enough money to make ends meet is the problem, leading many to the food bank.



  • UPDATED November 2008 Source: Winnipeg Harvest Inc.

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