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Winnipeg rejects local bid for ice machines

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grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

City pays $90,614 more to Regina company

CBC News
The City of Winnipeg rejected a bid by a local company for seven new Olympia ice-resurfacing machines. Instead, it will pay thousands more to a Regina-based company. The City of Winnipeg rejected a bid by a local company for seven new Olympia ice-resurfacing machines. Instead, it will pay thousands more to a Regina-based company. (Guertin Equipment Ltd.)

Managers at a Winnipeg company that sells ice-resurfacing machines are mystified that city officials rejected a tendered bid to provide new, Canadian-made machines for use at city rinks in favor of paying more to a Regina-based company for U.S.-made equipment.

Greg Chliboyko of Guertin Equipment Ltd. said the company aggressively sought the city's business by tendering a bid of $554,205 for seven new machines.

But instead, the city chose to purchase the equipment from Regina's Fer-Mark Equipment at a cost of $644,820, city finance documents show.

The Saskatchewan company sells U.S.-made Zamboni-branded equipment while Guertin sells ice-resurfacers made by Olympia in Canada.

Chliboyko, the sales manager at Guertin, told CBC News that he and his colleagues were shocked by the city's choice.

"We are all local people, we're all local taxpayers, we're all citizens … users of the rinks," he said.

'Quite frankly, we were nothing short of shocked.'—Greg Chliboyko

"Where there was a gap of $13,000 per machine or [about] $91,000 over the entire bid — which is completely staggering — it blew our socks off that we didn't win," Chliboyko added.

"Quite frankly, we were nothing short of shocked."

A spokesperson for the mayor's office would only say the machines offered by Guertin didn't meet the city's needs.

Chliboyko said the official reason from the city was that the people operating machines preferred the Zamboni equipment's transmission.

"That blocked out any other competitor," Chliboyko said.

He added that the savings the city would have seen from buying locally could have been plowed into rinks the city admits are in dire need of repairs.

One small concession is that Guertin will be contracted to maintain the machines as the Regina company does not have a maintenance facility in Winnipeg.

Chliboyko said he thought if the ice cleaning machines his company sells are good enough to be used by National Hockey League teams like the Vancouver Canucks and Calgary Flames, they'd be good enough to use at local arenas.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Something's wrong with this picture. If the local company met the specification they should have been awarded the contract.

I would expect a local preference clause as well in the tendering documents.

Something stinks here...

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

It is called scratch my back I scratch yours , there is a big push to loosen up and do more interprovincial trade. Especialy in the west.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

But not when they have to pay a premium. That makes zero sense even if they are trying to expand intra-provincial trade.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

too many things happening in an election year that will tie the hands of the incoming councill

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Politics makes for strange bed fellows.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

grumpy old man wrote:

I would expect a local preference clause as well in the tendering documents.
Isn't that detrimental in the long run...protectionism can cut two ways.

Something stinks here...

More to the story perhaps?

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Yeah, I imagine it could be detrimental. But one way to ensure there is local presence is to spec there must be a local staff for maintenance and repair.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

I say to let the market prevail.

If local suppliers think that they have an edge, they can start to cut corners.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Agreed. But how did that work for us in this case?

City needs to explain their choice. If local guy did not meet spec I'm okay with the choice. If the spec was capricious in order to favour Zamboni then I have a problem.

Just play fair.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Absolutely. That's why I figure something has been left out of this story. I really doubt that they would be that stupid (as to giving it to a high bidder).

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

You want to reconsider your post? I think they are that stupid. There is scads of evidence to substantiate that...

sputnik

sputnik
contributor plus
contributor plus

We buy network hardware often at a higher price.

The final price tag isn't everything in an RFP competition. Often factors like support and warranty contracts are a factor along with a million other things.

People just don't randomly spend more money for no reason. However the media would like you to believe that there were some back room deals being done and brown envelopes filled with money.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

You buy that hardware because it meets your needs more so than lower priced components. Makes sense. I imagine there is a specification for the product that you purchase that differs in some form or fashion resulting in a higher quality or better performing product.

If you were to tender that purchase you'd be certain that spec appears in the tender documents, and will reject out of hand any substitutes that don't meet your spec.

That same philosophy needs to be applied to purchasing ice cleaning equipment. If company B bid on an RFP they should have met the spec or received approval for an alternate. If they received approval they should have been awarded the contract. If they did not meet spec or receive alternate approval they should not have bid.

What's missing from this story is the reason the higher priced product was chosen over the lower bid.

Hell they may of simply filled out the bid documents incorrectly...

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

It looks like they made the decision based on performance as the Olympia machines seem to have tranny problems.

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/speedskating/story/2010/02/17/spo-zamboni-s.html

http://news.therecord.com/article/671813

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

What's missing from this story is the reporter's unbiased reporting.

There is no comment in there from the City as to a reason for the contract decision.
There is no review of the tenders presented by the companies from either the local company OR the Regina one.

It could be the warranty of the local company was for 5 years, and the one from Regina was for 10?
It could be the cost to fix Olympia brand is triple that of Zamboni?
It could be known that Olympia brand actually sucks and breaks down more often than Zamboni, and is therefore less reliable and may create too many problems at the rinks. (wasn't it the Olympia brand that screwed up at the Olympics this year?)

The only thing missing again is a complete story. It's just another bleeding-heart looking to tug at everyone's heart-strings about how the "little guy" gets screwed.

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

JTF wrote:It looks like they made the decision based on performance as the Olympia machines seem to have tranny problems.

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/speedskating/story/2010/02/17/spo-zamboni-s.html

http://news.therecord.com/article/671813

they built in Vancouver?

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Nah, they had big problems with them in Vancouver.

If Winnipeg purchasing knew there were severe performance issues with the product they could have done any number of things including excluding Olympia from bidding. They could also have demanded performance clauses forcing each manufacturer include service records for the product.

I still feel something is missing from this story.

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

Once again...still more to the story.
3 sides to every story...

So far all we've heard is the part from the local-yokel who's bid wasn't accepted. That's it.

Not only that, but this is Thrifty Winnipeg....some peeps have an issue with spending a little more to buy quality over a less expensive option that reduces quality to save on price.

Like Sputnik said, we do similar when looking for products. Some products are competitively priced, but lack quality in build, support, warranty, replacement parts, availability, TCO, etc.

And some products just plain suck compared to industry leaders.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Then the city needs to speak up. Now.

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

grumpy old man wrote:Nah, they had big problems with them in Vancouver.

If Winnipeg purchasing knew there were severe performance issues with the product they could have done any number of things including excluding Olympia from bidding. They could also have demanded performance clauses forcing each manufacturer include service records for the product.

I still feel something is missing from this story.

Plenty of times there are rules in place that don't allow governments to exclude particular companies. Especially for products with few manufactureres. How many ice resurfacing products available? If there are only two, or only two big players capable of meeting the specs, then excluding one of the two kinda makes the whole process of going out to tender redundant.

just sayin'

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Yup. Agreed. But you don't invite a manufacturer to bid if you have no intention of buying their product. If the city is interested in fairness they must write the specification in such a manner as to ensure all companies are bidding at the same quality level.

If a manufacturer has shown a propensity to build inferior products the city should discuss the issues with them in an effort to get them to improve on the quality. It's all in the contract documents. Comply with the spec or don't bid.

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

grumpy old man wrote:Yup. Agreed. But you don't invite a manufacturer to bid if you have no intention of buying their product. If the city is interested in fairness they must write the specification in such a manner as to ensure all companies are bidding at the same quality level. .

Oh...yes you do.

To get a price comparison against a model you really want.

It's like getting 3 quotes to fix your car before choosing where to go.

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

If the truth is that the city was NEVER going to accept bids from anyone to supply anything but Zambonis that should have been stated in the RFP. Not stating it as one of the requirements is dishonest and should be illegal. The companies that did not win should sue the city for the cost of the RFP.


Its alot different putting together and RFP of this type then me calling up a different car dealer and asking the price even if I dont intend to buy that car.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Agreed Deank.

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