nellie mclung was evil?

nope.

We offer to everyone of every race who has a proven history to have unprotected sex and drinks/does drugs whilst preggers.

then its only genocide if one group decides to keep doing it.


Then again I can seriously see some people who would drink and do drugs and such on purpose whilst preggers to get the 100K and that is sad

Hence the quotation marks around the word genocide Dean....

Never ever used the word expert just that I would like to see which report you talk of and you say and decided for me that I would not know of it . And yes I do have a view if you are willing to read and debate .
Many of these people need more education and life skills as many are or were drop outs . Forced Sterilization is not legally or morally an option , which is attainable . The children of this situation can and have been brought on to do much better then most would expect . Yes there are always some who will be a cost to us all , but so are there many who do not have FASD . And most of those reports are PUBLIC information, unlike all the PRIVATE ones out there.
Personally I would like to see the mother and child put in an institutional setting and kept there till some progress can be made with both mother and child .

Education is the biggest denominator in the scene , as is addiction rehab.

Pavolo wrote:Personally I would like to see the mother and child put in an institutional setting and kept there till some progress can be made with both mother and child .

Wasn't something like that already tried?

My stance is that drinking/using while pregnant or enabling a known pregnant woman to consume intoxicants should be a crime.

No doubt about that imo.

But the problem still would exist as many women drink when they don't know they are preganant and continue when they find out.

It's that first stage that's problematic.

The first trimester yes.....trouble is with someone who is a chronic substance abuser, the use of contraception is not a priority so it seems....get it while one can right? regardless of the dangers of casual sex (STD transmission) or possible results of said act ( that bundle of joy 9 mos. later that the parent cannot afford to raise as one example).

Far to many are not a bundle of joy but an opps, and treated as such for the rest of their life .

Yeah, I do believe that is what many of us have stated numerous times here.....and it gets tiresome as in the Gage Guimond case.....hard for me to feel sorry for the mother when the child was taken from her for good reasons only to die at the hands of a relative (cultural child care imperatives bullshite) who had expressed reluctance at being a foster caregiver.....and the drumbeat goes on and on and on and on........

So where in your infinite wisdom do you find the solution , sterilization is not one of them . But easier adoption is one of them . Problem is no one wants to take the child and give them a chance at better live . Most of these kids if given the chance can and do lead fairly good life's .

Pav, you always resort to sarcasm when you have nothing new to provide.

No Pav, I doubt you do.....it was a PRIVATELY commissioned report, not for distribution here. Whatever. Since pav you seem to be an "expert" on this issue could you please tell us your stance regarding forced sterilization or alternatives? Surely in 32 years of dealing with this sad and very preventable condition you must have arrived at some sort of action plan? Opinion? We all know already how controversial certain stances are, what is your stance?

Who is doing what .

huh?

Pavolo wrote:So where in your infinite wisdom do you find the solution , sterilization is not one of them . But easier adoption is one of them . Problem is no one wants to take the child and give them a chance at better live . Most of these kids if given the chance can and do lead fairly good life's .

Quite a few people are not willing to take a chance on adopting a child who might have FASD.

Pav old chum, could you afford to look after a child with FASD? Would you be willing to adopt a child from Manitoba? Are you a part of the solution?

Wait a minute...someone is advocating that families adopt aboriginal babies and take them away from their cultures and values? Isn't that considered cultural genocide? Isn't there a movement to try to connect adopted children back with their birth parents?

Seems like that solution has been tried before and been the subject of much criticism.

A colleague of mine is a foster parent. He and his wife have been looking after dozens of children in the last seven years or so. These people must be saints to take on that responsibility. Some of the stories I've heard are heart-wrenching.

The problem old chums is not a lack of willing foster parents. The problem is an abundance of reckless people that don't accept responsibility for their actions.

Solution? 1) Close your legs; b) if you can't close your legs, get yourself sterilized... Problem with sterilization is they can't get more welfare that way.

LivingDead wrote:

Pavolo wrote:So where in your infinite wisdom do you find the solution , sterilization is not one of them . But easier adoption is one of them . Problem is no one wants to take the child and give them a chance at better live . Most of these kids if given the chance can and do lead fairly good life's .

Quite a few people are not willing to take a chance on adopting a child who might have FASD.

Pav old chum, could you afford to look after a child with FASD? Would you be willing to adopt a child from Manitoba? Are you a part of the solution?

One I was one of those children in the 50's and I have done quite well Thank you .

Two I have friends that have adopted a child who is white and suffers from it he is doing better every year .

Three Iam to late in life to adopt a child now, but would if I could .

And the comment about white was directed at Freeman just to say not all adoptions in question are Native in ancestry. Cept maybe in your eyes , Yes while the majority are it is not unheard of for the little Barby Princess from River Heights to be part of the problem . You may not hear as much about it as they can or do afford Abortions much easier then the girl on the reserve . After all there is an image remember .

Can you imagine the impact on all those people who fostered and/or adopted Aboriginal kids with high needs, only to be openly criticized for not raising them "culturally" appropriately? Hell of a recruiting campaign for foster parents"

Pavolo wrote:And the comment about white was directed at Freeman just to say not all adoptions in question are Native in ancestry. Cept maybe in your eyes , Yes while the majority are it is not unheard of for the little Barby Princess from River Heights to be part of the problem . You may not hear as much about it as they can or do afford Abortions much easier then the girl on the reserve . After all there is an image remember .

Oh, get stuffed! You know what this thread is discussing, so don't pull that sh1t.

Remember, I still work in this area, and it is as frustrating as all hell to see this sh1t going on day after day after day.

Yes that it is and I agree the natives have really screwed it up with their culture sh1t but the goverment gave into it . This is a huge problem all i tried to do was to show it is across the board . As you sounded very lopsided in your assessment of it .

Excuse me Pav but abortions are free and accessible to ALL that is unless one's male-dominated tribal council decides that you, the woman, should not be terminating a pregnancy due to certain edicts such as the need for propagation therefore no plane ride to Winnipeg for you because we the elders have decided for you what course your womb errr life should take....Oh, I have heard that litany many times in my years up north and am hearing the siren call down here.....we will breed, and breed and breed because we can and that is how we will regain whatever......and you Pav cannot deny that words such as those have been uttered from top all the way down to the fourteen year-old girl who has been pressured into keeping a child she is not prepared to raise.

Is this comment racist?

Yes while the majority are it is not unheard of for the little Barby Princess from River Heights to be part of the problem .

Maybe not. Maybe more offensive me thinks.

That is what is called a classic misdirection ploy. 80 - 90% of FASD children are non-Barbies? Then there are the NON-FASD children in foster care. Any idea as to the ratio of Barbies to non-Barbies?

So why bring it up? Non-Barbies are the reason our systems are overflowing.

Miz point wrote:Excuse me Pav but abortions are free and accessible to ALL that is unless one's male-dominated tribal council decides that you, the woman, should not be terminating a pregnancy due to certain edicts such as the need for propagation therefore no plane ride to Winnipeg for you because we the elders have decided for you what course your womb errr life should take....Oh, I have heard that litany many times in my years up north and am hearing the siren call down here.....we will breed, and breed and breed because we can and that is how we will regain whatever......and you Pav cannot deny that words such as those have been uttered from top all the way down to the fourteen year-old girl who has been pressured into keeping a child she is not prepared to raise.

Hence as said it is not as easy for the girl up north and you are right , in their eyes numbers matter .

Pavolo wrote:Yes that it is and I agree the natives have really screwed it up with their culture sh1t but the goverment gave into it . This is a huge problem all i tried to do was to show it is across the board . As you sounded very lopsided in your assessment of it .

"lopsided", really, since you have access to all sorts of data, what is the incidence of FASD amongst the general population vs aboriginals?

My assessment is bang on. Time to get your head out of the sand. Just because it isn't nice to say, doesn't make it so.

"Non-Barbies", good term.

Pavolo wrote:

Miz point wrote:Excuse me Pav but abortions are free and accessible to ALL that is unless one's male-dominated tribal council decides that you, the woman, should not be terminating a pregnancy due to certain edicts such as the need for propagation therefore no plane ride to Winnipeg for you because we the elders have decided for you what course your womb errr life should take....Oh, I have heard that litany many times in my years up north and am hearing the siren call down here.....we will breed, and breed and breed because we can and that is how we will regain whatever......and you Pav cannot deny that words such as those have been uttered from top all the way down to the fourteen year-old girl who has been pressured into keeping a child she is not prepared to raise.

Hence as said it is not as easy for the girl up north and you are right , in their eyes numbers matter .

And that my friend, in its own insidious way, is a form of EUGENICS.