why do we have city police?

What is the defining aspect of having city/town/RM police force?

ie.. why doesn't everyone just use the RCMP??

Is it becuase you save money by having your own force instead of paying RCMP to do it? Is it for a more control aspect?

It's because the RCMP can't handle the big cities efficiently.

If the RCMP wanted to handle a city, they would have to setup a "city-only" dispatch centre in addition to covering the rest of a Province.

It could conceivably be cheaper to have the RCMP cover a city, but not efficient.

Plus, many of the standards for becoming a Winnipeg cop are lower than to become an RCMP Officer. There are many on the Winnipeg force who wanted to be RCMP, but just couldn't qualify and "settled" for city.

AGEsAces wrote:
Plus, many of the standards for becoming a Winnipeg cop are lower than to become an RCMP Officer. There are many on the Winnipeg force who wanted to be RCMP, but just couldn't qualify and "settled" for city.

I know a few who did that....actually, I thought they both were qualified and would have made exceptional RC's... (I'm not a cop, but they are people of integrity, level headed type folks). They didn't want the remote northern postings either, sorta wanted to start a family and live near civilization....so they jumped over to the WPS. I can't really fault them for that!

....plus I think it takes longer to become a RC than a WPS officer..?

So being back in the workforce making money, paying back loans, and doing police work...does it really matter what the badge is on your shoulder at that point?

I say no.

Well I am not wondering why one might become one or the other. I am wondering why a city/town/RM might choose to have one? What is/are the benefits to the city/town?

Seems to me that having lower standards for entry is not a benefit.

Everyone else was doing it....so we did too?

Sounds like something we'd do around here!

eg: "Edmonton has a chopper, so we should have one too!"

Yes...it is a benefit, because the workforce available increases.

The other advantage to having a "local" force over a "national" one, is the supposed "beat-cop" availability.

In theory, a local force gets to know their area.
They know the streets, the people, the atmosphere.

A national force rotates their personnel around the country, and requires all their members to serve at least 2 years in a "remote" assignment to qualify for certain promotions.

In case you weren't aware though, the RCMP still polices cities with their own forces (including Brandon & Winnipeg). But they only do so if the WPS can't cover something, or if requested by WPS for some sort of conflict. Ultimately though, the RCMP has jurisdiction over the whole country including the cities.

"Yes...it is a benefit, because the workforce available increases"
that is insanity talking. Lower standards for a police force are never a benefit..

"A national force rotates their personnel around the country, and requires all their members to serve at least 2 years in a "remote" assignment to qualify for certain promotions.

In case you weren't aware though, the RCMP still polices cities with their own forces (including Brandon & Winnipeg). But they only do so if the WPS can't cover something, or if requested by WPS for some sort of conflict. Ultimately though, the RCMP has jurisdiction over the whole country including the cities."

I am aware of all of this.

This still does not answer the question about why we would have our own force instead of just using the RCMP. I know many RCMP who after doing their "remote" assignment went back home on a permanent assignment. So yes we would have RCMP who would get to know the streets just as well as a WPS officer.


In Winnipeg and only including Winnipeg. What is the benefit right NOW to Winnipeg to having our own police force instead of a RCMP one?

JT Estoban wrote:Everyone else was doing it....so we did too?

Sounds like something we'd do around here!

eg: "Edmonton has a chopper, so we should have one too!"

I suppose that is one way to look at it. Another way might be to think of it as adopting best practises...

fine...

So how is having your own force a best practice?

grumpy old man wrote:

JT Estoban wrote:Everyone else was doing it....so we did too?

Sounds like something we'd do around here!

eg: "Edmonton has a chopper, so we should have one too!"

I suppose that is one way to look at it. Another way might be to think of it as adopting best practises...

Would you say the same for cash photo radar?

It sounds more like a bigger dick contest more often than not.

No insanity...reality.

Lower standards for qualifications really don't do anything in this case...other than increase the workforce available.

The standards between the two are slight (and getting closer all the time as the RCMP reduces its requirements)...but it does open up to hire more people, and GUARANTEE them local assignment, which is ideal for those with families before they start working.

But, I think you're asking the question why is it a benefit to Winnipeg more than to the workforce?

I could predict there are two MAJOR benefits:
1) Price
Yes...it probably costs more directly to have the cost of buildings, cars, officers, support, etc. than a fee was paid for a "centralized" RCMP force...however...
The RCMP officers get paid more
The RCMP Support gets paid more
And you'd still need the same number of each to cover the city that are currently in the WPS, plus...
New support staff would have to be hired to address the second major point:

2) Laws
The WPS enforces all laws, however they primarily deal with city laws. The RCMP primarily deals with Provincial and National laws.
If the RCMP assumed city enforcement..they would need liaisons for the court system for prosecution (there are already some in place now for certain things the RCMP does within the city).

Again, I don't know what you're aware of here...but here is something you may not know.
Even in more remote areas and smaller cities/towns where the RCMP does police...they don't police everything.

There are:
By-law officers
Special Constables
Band Officers
Parking Authorities

Basically those four enforce the day-to-day operations within their areas...the RCMP primarily deal with emergency situations and Provincial road/speed enforcement.


Personally...the way I see the RCMP is summed up pretty well in the movie "The Siege" with Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis.

Bruce's character (a US Army General) was asked what it would take to put his troops in NYC...his response:

The Army is a broad sword, not a scalpel. Trust me, senator - you do not
want the Army in an American city.


The RCMP is a NATIONAL Force...it is there to fill in where the Army isn't required, but where it's not reasonable because of population limitations to police locally. They are not as blunt as the Army is...but there's a reason they are famous for capturing criminals...and it has nothing to do with driving around neighbourhoods looking for litterbugs and bicycles on sidewalks.

RCMP is the only force in many towns. I dont understand how it can work in some places and not in others.

Reducing the standards is complete insanity. The RCMP should never have done it and no police force should ever do it.

Name some towns where the RCMP is the only law enforcement?

And I agree 100% about the standards thing.
No police or military force should EVER reduce their standards to fill their positions required.

They may have to adapt positions, or require more from what they can get...but to lower the standards is an insult to those who came before, and a hazard to those who are yet to come.

The Pas
Lloydminster
Stienbach.
portage la prarie

and I am talking about police force.. not bylaw enforcement.

but it's all tied together.

I don't know about lloydminster, but the other three all have "Special Constables" assigned for various duties.

AGEsAces wrote:Name some towns where the RCMP is the only law enforcement?

And I agree 100% about the standards thing.
No police or military force should EVER reduce their standards to fill their positions required.

They may have to adapt positions, or require more from what they can get...but to lower the standards is an insult to those who came before, and a hazard to those who are yet to come.

Smithers, BC. Surrey, BC. Terrace, BC. Valemount, BC. Boston Bar, BC. Golden, BC. All these towns have RCMP only. Shall I go on?

AGEsAces wrote:but it's all tied together.

I don't know about lloydminster, but the other three all have "Special Constables" assigned for various duties.

not tied together at all.

The requirements for handing out parking tickets is usually...

Are you breathing?

and has nothing at all to do with catching "criminals"

I reckon the reason some small communities have their own police is because of costs. I understand the RCMP is more expensive than their own.

Small places don't need the services of $90,000 a year cops.

so there is no determining factor then? Its just city/town/RM council personal choice?

I'm sure there are some advantages to using RCMP. Towns don't have to worry about hiring and firing and training and vacation replacements etc...

so... would it be advantagous for Winnipeg to switch to RCMP use?

i think a city of winnipegs size needs its own force, like most major cities.
once a city gets a certain size they can afford to have their own force, smaller towns i would think would not have enough money.

also with the city having its own force, they determine how many officers they get to hire and maintain, whereas if they relied on the RCMP they would probably not get the number of officers and support staff that is really needed for a city that big, since they are drawing from a national pool that is also supplying the rest of the country. with a city force you hire what you need for that city, and can increase or decrease as needed.

also, JTF, from the rcmp website
"When you successfully complete the Cadet
Training Program and have been offered employment, you will be engaged
(hired) as a regular member constable at an annual salary of $47,393. Normally,
within 36 months of service, your salary will increase incrementally to $76,792
annually."

and from the city of winnipeg website http://winnipeg.ca/policerecruiting/lateral/benefits.aspx
WPS constable first class annual salary is $78,286

so the winnipeg cops are actually costing you more

I really don't think it would Dean.

I can understand why your thinking it would.
The idea of taxes paying for two police entities when lots of overhead and redundancy could be supposedly eliminated by consolidation.

But, having seen some of the inner workings of the RCMP first-hand...I can assure you the problems would significantly outweigh the benefits.

I think the better comparison would be why do we have a Provincial government and a City government? Can't the Provincial government just handle all the things within the Province, without needing to have a Premier AND a Mayor? Or even the little towns having their own Mayors and political positions?

Or...even with that...why have Provincial government at all? When a National government could do just as well?

Policing is (and always should be) one of the few government controlled/funded entities in society. To privatize it would open it to more scandal and corruption than could currently be perceived.

At some point in a society, the policing needs to become an "internal" responsibility when the demand outweighs the ability of a national force. The populations of cities like Winnipeg and Brandon are higher than that National Force can reasonably sustain...especially since they can't cover the positions the already have to cover.

nope..nothing to do with reducing it to one entity from two.

I just dont understand why we bother with our own force. It seems fairly obvious that the mayor and council is not in any control of the force so I am womdering why we bother with the headache.