Should the city be able to Tax any business transaction within city limits?

City's are always looking for new ways to raise money.
Thompson is currently trying to pass some taxation laws on a variety of items.
City of Winnipeg recently passed a hotel rooms tax
What do you think about City's having the rights and responsiblity to tax every transaction in the city?

whats wrong? everyone on this site to conservative to admit we have a huge problem with our tax structure and we need something?

sheesh.. someone vote for gods sake

Chillax DeanK. Frankly did not see this thread until this am...

Thompson is trying something new and innovative. We are more a collection of city-states now then a province. Especially the larger cities. We need a collective (a province or federal government) to manage the greater good (policing, transit, defense) to be sure. But cities drive most of the economy and should receive more than they do today. I would rather a greater share of our taxes went to the cities to allow the city to determine where the money will be spent.

This is especially true in Manitoba where Winnipeg is the driving force behind Manitoba's economy. I feel it is ludicrous that our mayor has to grovel for money from Evil Doer (or ANY Premier).

I think Glen Murray was on the right track.

I'm not in favour of the philosophy of taxing anything for the sake of taxes. First, the City has to do a better job of what they're doing iwth my money anyway. That goes for all levels of government. Too much of our civic taxes goes to frills and bullshit. Government is there to provide essential services that the public sector can not, fire, police, public works, etc.

I am in favour of a frontage levy and user fees for services (ie garbage) and yes, admission to the zoo. I'm afraid that the type of power you refer to would be an all encompassing thing, and imagine what would happen if council was dominated by socialists. Its tough enough to run a business without a tax on every time the door opens.

It's right about here where I say we need a completely revamped system....one that is opposite to the existing one we are familiar with....

Taxes should go firstly to the city (municipal level); then to the Province and the rest trickled to the Feds.

All of our primary needs would be looked after and the superfluous things when and if there was extra cash.

Simple and effective no?

Works for me.

My suggestion for raising revenues.......

Simple, put up toll gates at all roads leading into the city at the Perimiter Highway. Nothing too outrageuous, something like $0.75/day or a monthly RFID pass for your car at 15/month. Assuming 15,000 cars a day enter the city from the bedroom communities to work, your looking at an extra $3-4 million annually. I'd say 15,000/day is conservative but I have no idea what the actual numbers are. Costs residents of the city very little except for people returning from out of town trips etc. Puts some of the tax burden back on those that flee the city for lower taxes but still work here (90%).

I figure the anti-sprawl types would eat this idea up.

grumpyrom wrote:My suggestion for raising revenues.......

Simple, put up toll gates at all roads leading into the city at the Perimiter Highway. Nothing too outrageuous, something like $0.75/day or a monthly RFID pass for your car at 15/month. Assuming 15,000 cars a day enter the city from the bedroom communities to work, your looking at an extra $3-4 million annually. I'd say 15,000/day is conservative but I have no idea what the actual numbers are. Costs residents of the city very little except for people returning from out of town trips etc. Puts some of the tax burden back on those that flee the city for lower taxes but still work here (90%).

I figure the anti-sprawl types would eat this idea up.

I fled the city because I like a very quite property, trees, wildlife and lots of room. My property taxes are indeed low, mainly because I don't get many services.

On the other hand I pay a ton of city property and business taxes (more than most home owners) so do I get a free pass?

Would you pay those city property and business taxes if you lived in the city?

Winnipeg taxpayers pay for police, and fire, and ambulance, and snow removal, and garbage removal... If you live outside the city and contribute nothing to those services why would you warrant a free pass? Or do you feel it is enough that you pay taxes on your business?

grumpy old man wrote:Would you pay those city property and business taxes if you lived in the city?

Winnipeg taxpayers pay for police, and fire, and ambulance, and snow removal, and garbage removal... If you live outside the city and contribute nothing to those services why would you warrant a free pass? Or do you feel it is enough that you pay taxes on your business?

What? If I lived in the city I would obviously also pay home property taxes. Maybe I wasn't clear. My business is located in the city so I pay plenty of city taxes.

I want a free pass !!!

No, you were clear. Are business taxes intended to pay for the same services as property taxes? If I owned a business (and paid business taxes) AND I lived in the city (and paid property taxes) would I get an exemption for my property taxes?

Nope, I pay both. The fact one runs a business and pay's business related taxes should not exempt one from paying user fees.

Business taxes and property taxes all go into the same pot. I pay not only business taxes but also the property taxes on my location.

The city must agree with my view because even as a non resident I can, and have, been issued with a Winnipeg library card. (normally non residents have to pay for library use). If you pay city business / property taxes you are considered a "resident".

Not my rules, existing city regulations.

So, gimmy my pass !!!!!! Plus I want one of those transponders buses have so they can jump red lights.

Have paid both for awhile now and find it annoying to pay education tax to . This should be removed from city rolls and The said school divisions get by on what they are given from the province.
If they need more, tax the people using the schools, and let me pay it in my provincial taxes only. People who have special needs pay a bigger share of the true cost of this service.

What's the difference between taxing only those that use the schools and private education then? IMO schools are an essential service that at some point ALL residents have attended. Regardless of wether or not you have children I don't buy the "pay the true cost of this service" argument.

At this point in time I have 1 school aged child, in 10 years I'll have none. Don't think I'll be complaining too much about school taxes at that time.

Going along this argument why shouldn't all public services be "true cost" based. Need a policeman to attend a break in, .... pay for it. Need a firetruck to put out your garage fire...pay for it. All public services are subsidized by the taxpayer. Why should education suddenly be different?

Cause most who have had kids go through 15 yrs ago are tired of the ever increasing bill tacked on to their home for something they have paid for twice over. I will pay or should pay a reduced rate to the province but the extra part on my property tax bill is nuts . The school division have to look to better control their expenditures . Maybe look at salaries more and look at all the time off for seminars. If you want your child to do advanced french then pay the cost , Tax payers should only pay for the 3 rs . I paid to put my child through University and I paid the tax bill for her to go to school and now I want a break from some of it .
Hell last year the school was only 350 dollers less then the city portion and it has gone up 19 percent in the last 3 yrs. This so the janitor in Transcona can earn as much as the janitor in River East doe's cause they are the same school division now as they merged . Also close the damm schools that are empty , cut back on the bussing students around town .

The Perimeter is a provincial/federal road. As are many roads through the city.
The 180 Million that the province hands out to fix roads does not just come from Winnipeg taxation. Me thinks that if Winnipeg even began to tinker with thinking about taxing entry into the city We would have a few things happen real quick
1) provincial and federal funding for infrastructure dry up overnight until the lawsuits kicked in that basically told Winnipeg to FOFF
2) Many businesses would leave the city and set up shop outside the city.
3) With less people coming to the city and with less funding our infrastructure would crumble.

No I dont think we should be charging people to come into the city, very bad idea.

Toll roads seem to work rather well in many cities as a means of generating revenues for road maintenance. Chicago comes to mind quickly as a city I have visited many times that has toll gates at every major interstate in and out of the city. As a tourist I've been caught many times paying both to get off and then back on to I-94 in the span of a few minutes.

Just add toll gates at Main St. Southbound (S/B), Hwy59 S/B, Brookside Blvd. S/B, McGillvary E/B, St.Mary and St.Anne's N/B, Fermor W/B etc. I don't honestly believe those that live outside the city limits would suddenly stop coming into the city for work and shopping because of a few toll gates. If they had a choice to work and shop nearer to home they wouldn't be coming into the city to begin with.

Deank wrote:
3) With less people coming to the city and with less funding our infrastructure would crumble.

No I dont think we should be charging people to come into the city, very bad idea.

What funding are they contributing to infrastructure by living outside city limits?

grumpyrom wrote:Toll roads seem to work rather well in many cities as a means of generating revenues for road maintenance. Chicago comes to mind quickly as a city I have visited many times that has toll gates at every major interstate in and out of the city. As a tourist I've been caught many times paying both to get off and then back on to I-94 in the span of a few minutes.

Just add toll gates at Main St. Southbound (S/B), Hwy59 S/B, Brookside Blvd. S/B, McGillvary E/B, St.Mary and St.Anne's N/B, Fermor W/B etc. I don't honestly believe those that live outside the city limits would suddenly stop coming into the city for work and shopping because of a few toll gates. If they had a choice to work and shop nearer to home they wouldn't be coming into the city to begin with.

I'd be all for toll's on those roads, provided they actually used the money to maintain them in pristine condition. The second the city used the money to buy a picnic table worth $60k or raises for themselves, they should be shot and hung in public.

Pavolo wrote:Cause most who have had kids go through 15 yrs ago are tired of the ever increasing bill tacked on to their home for something they have paid for twice over. I will pay or should pay a reduced rate to the province but the extra part on my property tax bill is nuts . The school division have to look to better control their expenditures . Maybe look at salaries more and look at all the time off for seminars. If you want your child to do advanced french then pay the cost , Tax payers should only pay for the 3 rs . I paid to put my child through University and I paid the tax bill for her to go to school and now I want a break from some of it .
Hell last year the school was only 350 dollers less then the city portion and it has gone up 19 percent in the last 3 yrs. This so the janitor in Transcona can earn as much as the janitor in River East doe's cause they are the same school division now as they merged . Also close the damm schools that are empty , cut back on the bussing students around town .

Sorry, but I still can't agree with the "I've paid enough" argument. It's an essential service for the betterment of all society, no different than healthcare in my opinion.

Now, if you want to argue that school boards need to reign in spending that's another issue completely. Personally I don't see the need for multiple school divisions, each with their own board of trustees and multiple layers of administration. Amalgamate all school divisions into one and get rid of 90% of the bureaucracy. I never understood the need for a different school board in Charleswood, Seven Oaks, etc. Shouldn't curriculum be the same city and even province wide?

Yes to tolls Dean take a look at the industrial park here in Springfield right next to city limits going up with out even A fire hall in it . All of the business's in it are city ones , hell they don't even have sprinklers in them . The reason the land is zoned Agriculture so the same rules do not apply .
Our useless Premier doe's nothing as per usual wait for another Expotential fire with the wind drifting back to the city . These shops and their employees use city facilities roads and what not but pay taxes in Springfield .
Some of these owners do not live in Wpg proper either. This city has to get our useless thumb up ass Premier to the table and hammer out a bigger share of provincial revenue.
Less he spent to much defending his union buddies from Crocus to share with us now.

I alwasy considered taxes as a way to pay for services which the private sector could not and should not run. This toll idea seems to be punitive. If someone who lives outside the city, makes the investment, and owns and operates a business within the city, and that business employes people, pays taxes, and contributes to the economy of the city, how does it make sense to force the owner to pay a toll just to enter the city?

Yes i agree with you but if you are located out side the boundary with that business , and dodging the taxes while doing most of you business in the city you should pay something to us for it .
Same for people who use city roads and infrastructure while they live outside the city . Besides you don't save if you really look at it add the gas and the wear and tear to the car .
The extras like softening salt and destroyed Taps cause of the hard water and the trips in and out with the kids . Much easier being here . Sorry but the cost is to high to live there in inconvenience and time on the road .

Or maybe the City should create an environment where a business should not feel that they have to move outside the City.

It boils down to cheap the lifeblood of Winnipegers