begun the lot wars have

Many organizations get sidetracked from their raison e'tre in the pursuit of funding, or the personal whim of someone involved in the organization.

sputnik wrote:

JTF wrote:

DeanK brings up a good point. What about the publicly funded community centres? Why are they not filling these needs?

They are to a certain extent.

The point to this is that there are all kinds of people out there that take advantage of a situation to make a job for themselves.

The kids are of secondary consideration...their own positions are of utmost importance to them...the kids secondary.

Perhaps. However YFC has been operating in Winnipeg for several decades now.

I figure they have their payroll sources figured out by now.

I get the impression that the money is really only being used for a new facility to consolidate their multiple buildings scattered throughout the city.

That exactly what it looks like. SOme of their "payroll" is paid to the older kids who work with and mentor the younger ones. Darn good concept.

Freeman wrote:Many organizations get sidetracked from their raison e'tre in the pursuit of funding, or the personal whim of someone involved in the organization.

how so?

I could understand if someone was making $500k/year to basically be an office manager...that's unacceptable...but if someone is doing a job helping kids, and collecting a salary so they can afford to dedicate their time....there's nothing wrong with that at all.

for instance.. a member of a member organization that decides that he just does not like the rules that people have set up and instead of trying to push a particular sport forward it basically kicks it in the nuts, takes it ball and goes and forms his own league without consulting his membership and basically screwing all the kids in his area over.

just as an example.. not that anything like that ever happens.

Deank wrote:for instance.. a member of a member organization that decides that he just does not like the rules that people have set up and instead of trying to push a particular sport forward it basically kicks it in the nuts, takes it ball and goes and forms his own league without consulting his membership and basically screwing all the kids in his area over.

just as an example.. not that anything like that ever happens.

but that's a fault of the organization...not of the individual.

had the organization been organized well, and structured correctly, that individual would not have had enough influence to pull that many players from it. they would have explained they were happy where they were.

AGEsAces wrote:

Freeman wrote:Many organizations get sidetracked from their raison e'tre in the pursuit of funding, or the personal whim of someone involved in the organization.

how so?

I could understand if someone was making $500k/year to basically be an office manager...that's unacceptable...but if someone is doing a job helping kids, and collecting a salary so they can afford to dedicate their time....there's nothing wrong with that at all.

Nothing wrong with someone being paid an honest wage for doing something as you describe. For example, if an organization is set up and initially funded to provide services to kids within a neighbourhood, and then some grant comes up from the feds for cultural activities for Aboriginal youth, but the catchment population is primarily immigrants from Sudan, Somalia, etc. Some organizations would see the $$'s and pursue those, even if it took them away from the primary mission.

The non for profit world is a constant search for funding, whether from private or public sources. Private donors will give if they "buy in" to your organization, but public money is directed to specific targets and the organization has to comply with the requirements of the grant, which may change over time depending on the political wind of the day. It takes effort to stay true to your mandate when you get addicted to the flow of public money.

I'd see those as mismanaged organizations though.

The truly sad part, is outside of the initial funding (which is usually a large lump sum), the day-to-day management expenses can typically be pretty low.

Plus, it's rare that these organizations take advantage of other revenue aspects that are available, without violating the NPO rules.

Those other options could offset costs significantly, so much that searches for private annual donations would not be required at all.

"but that's a fault of the organization...not of the individual.

had the organization been organized well, and structured correctly, that individual would not have had enough influence to pull that many players from it. they would have explained they were happy where they were."

this person has all the power he needed to pull the players... they really dont have any idea what he is doing.

for the most part any sport organized around CCs in our city.. the players and their parents have exactly ONE opportunity to voice any concerns per year. And in the case of some CCs that one event is so manipulated that they would have little chance of changing anything and WORSE even if they could.. they are 6 months too late.

@ages..I agree about the mismanaged comment, and there are many out there. Remember that not for profit really only relates to the form of ownership, in that the "profits" are not distributed to anyone, but kept within the organization.

You would be surprised about ongoing operating costs. I work for a registered charity, and as an example, our liability insurance costs about $16,000 per year. Ouch.

no...i wouldn't be surprised about the costs . I know what they are...and insurance is always a high one...ESPECIALLY for an activity based structure...though...there ARE ways to solve that problem too

when i say mismanaged though...it's not always that someone has done something wrong...more often, it's that they haven't done something different.

most organizations out there are "handed down" from manager to manager...those taking control have been in the organization and have been "taught" how to do things...but that's not always the right way.
they are afraid to take chances and risk loss, yet often it's because that's not presented properly as a viable option.

Thats why a non profit needs a strong Board of Directors. First, they would make sure that solid management is in place. Also, great source of info and assistance in specialized areas (legal, marketing, finance, etc)

A lot of this is common sense based on good business practices, but you need the passion for the organization and its mission.

Freeman wrote:Thats why a non profit needs a strong Board of Directors. First, they would make sure that solid management is in place. Also, great source of info and assistance in specialized areas (legal, marketing, finance, etc)

A lot of this is common sense based on good business practices, but you need the passion for the organization and its mission.

Seems like YFC has a pretty strong and experienced Board of Directors to me.

• Chairperson: Robert Reimer (PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP)
  
• Vice Chair: Todd Sellick (Clinical Psychologist, Sellick and Associates)
  
• Secretary: Kim Dyck (Jade Transport)
  
• Member: Michael Easton (Argus Industries)
  
• Member: Ben Kelly (Director, Investment Banking, National Bank Financial)
  
• Member: Larry Wilson (Director, First Nations Alliance Churches of Canada)
  
• Member: Victor Martens (Owner, Tim Hortons/Timross Inc.)
  
• Member: Nolan Ploegman (Development Coordinator, Concord Projects Ltd.)
  
• Member on leave: Doug Buhler (Owner, Buhler Furniture Inc.)
  
• Non-voting Member: John Courtney (Executive Director, Youth For Christ Winnipeg)
  

I recognized a few of the names, but thats an impressive bunch. Good diversity of skill sets.

yowza... and now Katz fires back today... and already 83 comments on the freep website

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/MP-may-regret-taking-aim-at-Christian-youth-centre-Mayor-Katz-84711837.html

Pat Martin would support it if it was called "Youth for Socialism."...but they would only allow left handed kids to enter.

Katz said:

The mayor said the city is happy to fund a variety of religious organizations who have stepped up to conduct social services.

WTF?

Why are we funding all these organizations in the first place?

JTF wrote:Katz said:

The mayor said the city is happy to fund a variety of religious organizations who have stepped up to conduct social services.

WTF?

Why are we funding all these organizations in the first place?

While there is a basic level of service that should be provided, government has clearly demonstrated their ineptitude to do so. For example, the subject at hand is to provide programs for youth, particularly in certain areas of the City. The publicly funded community centre system, which is supposed to provide a venue for such things, doesn't work. Because, well, theres a bunch of reasons.

Anyway, providing grants to organizations is cheaper and more efficient than doing it yourself.

For example, the Main Street Project, just a block away from the site of this proposed youth centre, is an NPO, which administers the facility for holding people under the Intoxicated Persons Detention Act, aka the drunk tank. Think how much it would cost the city/province or whoever to run the same thing.

On this, believe it or not, I agree with Martin.

The city has no business getting involved with religious groups in situations like this. We cannot be all-things to all people.

City government should be providing basic services, like sewer and water, and not sport facilities; art projects; etc.

Oh, and btw, some guy phoned into 'OB and said that he went to some YFC events and was told if he didn't participate in the religious part, he couldn't come around any more.

That's fcuked up imo.

JTF wrote:Oh, and btw, some guy phoned into 'OB and said that he went to some YFC events and was told if he didn't participate in the religious part, he couldn't come around any more.

That's fcuked up imo.

What? Someone anonymously phoned into CJOB and said that? Then it MUST be true!

Yes ain,t that the truth, YFC is a very good organization have dealt with a few of them in the past . Found them to be so much better then the city as they know what they are doing .

These days all you have to do is check out Facebook if you want to get an idea as to what the kids think about YFC.

Here is the official YFC Camp Cedarwood Facebook group. 1000+ fans. Not to shabby.

https://www.facebook.com/campcedarwood

I remember that plot of land in 1950 when Queen Elizabeth was driven past the buildings there. The City had all the windows painted out because "Parlour" was in plain view!
Where did those buildings go to? Why a decrease in parlours when the need is greater today?
Whatever building goes there , there better be beer available!

JTF. The money the city is providing is to cover the cost of a loan to get someone to build on a high profile plot of land that has remained empty for several years. Would you rather it sat empty or would you rather it was developed?

The group in a non-profit , non sectarian group, which means open to all, and the "Christ" part is only a poor choice of wording! There is nothing wrong with the plan and the area they are choosing seems to me to be pretty perfect for the area! Let us get behind the plan, as it is a good plan. We will just ignore the name! The plan is great!

Deank wrote:JTF. The money the city is providing is to cover the cost of a loan to get someone to build on a high profile plot of land that has remained empty for several years. Would you rather it sat empty or would you rather it was developed?

apparently this has changed from the original posting... its not only the interest on the loan.

JTF wrote:You guys do know that these buildings are being financed by you and me eh?

FYI, I'd rather pay the 9 million to this project, than to pay 23 million per year for the Cnanadian Human rights museum.