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the winnipeg sandbox » winnipeg sandbox.. » politics... » Harper to prorogue parliment.. aint that cool?

Harper to prorogue parliment.. aint that cool?

+8
SuperNaut
LivingDead
grumpy old man
katrina
St Norberter
cherenkov
Goth_chic
Deank
12 posters

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SuperNaut


newbie

Deank wrote:A worthy topic it may well be.

But what would the question be?

Should we abolish the senate?
Should we change the senate to include dogs?

its an extremely hard question to ask when most people have no clue what the purpose of the Senate is, even thought they should have learned it in school. All they see is an expense that does not seem to be worth it. Yet look at the US.. it has a Senate... As do many many many other areas.

Lets just hope that the question is not asked in such a way as to fool the citizens into voting one way or another.

Jondo

Jondo
major-contributor
major-contributor

DeanK comparing our Senate to the USA or others is misleading. The Senate process here and there is not comparable. These partisan-placed people represent nobody other than the political party that plummed them off. We don't need a Senate in our process - least of all an unelected one. It will be an exciting year ahead with Harper at the helm.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

given the track record this country has on referendum questions I find it difficult to believe the question would be anything but misleading.

"
Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?. "

and
The Gov't of Quebec has made public its proposal to negotiate a new agreement with the rest of Canada, based on the equality of nations; this agreement would enable Quebec to acquire the exclusive power to make its laws, levy its taxes and establish relations abroad — in other words, sovereignty — and at the same time to maintain with Canada an economic association including a common currency; any change in political status resulting from these negotiations will only be implemented with popular approval through another referendum; on these terms, do you give the Government of Quebec the mandate to negotiate the proposed agreement between Quebec and Canada?"

and

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Do you agree that the Constitution of Canada should be renewed on the basis of the agreement reached on August 28, 1992?


ProvinceYesNoVoter turnout
Alberta39.860.272.6
British Columbia31.768.376.7
Manitoba38.461.670.6
New Brunswick61.838.272.2
Newfoundland63.236.853.3
Nova Scotia48.851.267.8
Ontario50.149.971.9
Prince Edward Island73.926.170.5
Quebec143.356.782.8
Saskatchewan44.755.368.7
Northwest Territories61.338.770.4
Yukon43.756.370.0
Nation totals45.754.371.8

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

and

Are you in favour of releasing the Government from any obligations arising out of any past commitments restricting the methods of raising men for military service?

SuperNaut

SuperNaut
newbie

Question

1)Are you in favor of abolishing the senate? YES or NO

If you answered NO to question 1 please answer question 2.

2)Are you in favor of keeping the senate as it is? YES or NO

If you answered Yes to question 2 please answer question 3.

3)Would you prefer the senate be reformed as an effective, equal, elected body? YES or NO


And with the results, The Government of Canada would know how to proceed.

Miz point

Miz point
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

That is if they wanted to proceed. Back during the Mulroney era the Senate was stacked in favour of the ruling tories so the GST could be slammed through.

http://www.granhotelflores.blogspot.com

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"3)Would you prefer the senate be reformed as an effective, equal, elected body? YES or NO"

see.. that right there...thats a misleading question. what does effective and equal mean?

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Miz point wrote:That is if they wanted to proceed. Back during the Mulroney era the Senate was stacked in favour of the ruling tories so the GST could be slammed through.

exactly. so while I am in favor of this happening now, because I happen to agree with the legislation that needs to be passed I sincerely doubt I will be in favor of this for some of the other legislation that might get passed.

This is why we need an elected Senate that run for election exactly 2 years after the current parliment session ran for election.

Miz point

Miz point
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

I agree strongly to the need for an elected senate....nepotism and poltical appointments are a terrible part of our system, of any system, and as I have witnessed not just in other countries but here as well, those appointments are bogus and do nothing except to perpetuate corruption.

http://www.granhotelflores.blogspot.com

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

The Senate should be abolished imo.

It serves no singularly useful purpose in itself. The costs to keep it could be diverted to parliamentary committees, or some such existing, or even a new facility, and reduced at the same time.

It is supposed to be a chamber for sober second thought but that could be done in another fashion and at a cheaper costs imo.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"It is supposed to be a chamber for sober second thought but that could be done in another fashion and at a cheaper costs imo."


how.

Miz point

Miz point
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

Sheesh.....I agree with regards to senate reform on a senate reform thread and I still get "pilloried".....amusing. Harper to prorogue parliment.. aint that cool? - Page 2 27789

http://www.granhotelflores.blogspot.com

Miz point

Miz point
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

Deank wrote:"It is supposed to be a chamber for sober second thought but that could be done in another fashion and at a cheaper costs imo."


how.

Do we really want more constitutional reform talks that will go on ad nauseum and at what further costs to us? Royal Commissions are costly indeed and are in some cases, more lip service, but to appease whom?

http://www.granhotelflores.blogspot.com

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

What is the alternative?

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Off the top of my head...through parliamentary committees ....but I also question the need for a second thought. That makes no sense when you think about it.
That seems to be an excuse for the senate to exist, but when you look closely...that need vanishes if it is done properly the first time. That is what we expect from the federal government to say the least.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

name some countries without a sober second thought

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Who cares about other countries.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Miz point wrote:
Deank wrote:"It is supposed to be a chamber for sober second thought but that could be done in another fashion and at a cheaper costs imo."


how.

Do we really want more constitutional reform talks that will go on ad nauseum and at what further costs to us? Royal Commissions are costly indeed and are in some cases, more lip service, but to appease whom?

fucuk royal commissions. its simple

the government of the day says here is our proposal.. agree or not?
not... means not and they go back to the drawing board.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

JTF wrote:Who cares about other countries.

me for one. and I imagine many other people have a similar question.. .what do other countries do? Democracy aint a new concept, there has to be other models out there that we can base our government on without starting out brand new.

Are there any other democratic countries without a senate? If so, what are they so I can see the model and see if I agree.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

quick question... why do some people think prorogueing parliment is an attack on democracy?

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Deank wrote:
JTF wrote:Who cares about other countries.

me for one. and I imagine many other people have a similar question.. .what do other countries do? Democracy aint a new concept, there has to be other models out there that we can base our government on without starting out brand new.

Are there any other democratic countries without a senate? If so, what are they so I can see the model and see if I agree.

Why do we have to model ourselves after someone else?

If we cannot figure this out on our own...we should leave things the way they are.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"Why do we have to model ourselves after someone else?"

Because people fear the unknown. People fearing the unknown will get any hopes of changed tossed before they even start no matter how good they are.,

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

And why reinvent the wheel? If someone else out there has a well-working system why not follow best practises and tweak to our specific needs?

LivingDead

LivingDead
general-contributor
general-contributor

Miz point wrote:That is if they wanted to proceed. Back during the Mulroney era the Senate was stacked in favour of the ruling tories so the GST could be slammed through.

It was lucky for the Liberals that the GST was in place to make them look like they knew what they were doing with Canada's finances. Otherwise their rule would have been significantly shorter.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

LivingDead

LivingDead
general-contributor
general-contributor

Deank wrote:
JTF wrote:Who cares about other countries.

me for one. and I imagine many other people have a similar question.. .what do other countries do? Democracy aint a new concept, there has to be other models out there that we can base our government on without starting out brand new.

Are there any other democratic countries without a senate? If so, what are they so I can see the model and see if I agree.

One thing deank. Canada is not a Democracy. It is an oligarchy, you vote your MP but the party chooses the PM. Therfore we have an Oligarchy or an elected dictatorship.

Personally I'd like to see Canada dump the "monarchist parliamentary" system and make the move to a Republic.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

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