On a serious note...who plans on getting the vaccine?

"The reason they are so worried about this flu is that it has the potential to kill normally healthy people with no immune problems. How many people in the world have been vaccinated now? At least a few million. Where are all the negative effects?"

It has the potential.. which we have not actually seen it doing in any great numbers.

How many people in the world have had this flu already? At least a few hundred million. Where are all the deaths?

Bartron.

I know what it currently is. But there are people pushing for in School Vaccination. Normally I have no problem with that and just dont sign the permission slip. However, NOW we have all sorts of nutjobs freaking out and calling people who dont get the vaccine murderers. How long before that attitude is pushed into the schools?

All I am saying is that decisions about something as serious as this should come from being informed by someone very knowledgeable and the internet is full of crap on topics like this. Doctors are knowledgeable - if you don't have a good Dr. that is unfortunate. I have only had two, the one that delivered me and now a younger guy who works little and offers quality care.

Just as an example there was something I read about there being mercury in the vaccine. I asked the Dr. about it, there are trace amounts of a preservative called Thimerosal which does contain mercury. It is harmless in the amounts used. It is used in pretty well all vaccines stored in large quantities, including vetranary ones. So yes, you have been eating it! And putting it in your eyes - it is also in contact lens solution.

The swine flu shot manufactured by Novartis is approved for children
ages 4 and up, and adults. Along with the inactivated virus, this
formulation of the H1N1 vaccine contains ovalbumin, which is an egg
protein. In addition, this formulation contains two antibiotics:
polymyxin and neomycin. The International Agency for Research on Cancer
classifies betapropiolactone, also present in this vaccine, as a
possible human carcinogen, or cancer causing agent. An adjuvant called
Nonylphenol ethoxylate is used to reduce the amount of antigen
necessary per dose of vaccine.
Read more: http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/chemical_ingredients_found_in_the_h1n1_vaccine#ixzz0VLdXZbQX

Swine Flu Shot for Infants and Up

The only swine flu vaccine that is cleared for infants is made by
Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. This vaccine is approved for infants of 6 months
and up, toddlers, children, and adults. In addition to inactivated
virus, this vaccine also contains gelatin from unspecified sources,
polyethylene glycol p-isooctylphenyl ether, and sucrose, as well as
formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is used in the production of the vaccine, in
order to kill the live swine flu virus.
Read more: http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/chemical_ingredients_found_in_the_h1n1_vaccine#ixzz0VLdcfaKQ

Mercury in Swine Flu Vaccine

The inhalable swine flu vaccine contains no mercury. Injectable H1N1
vaccines in multi-dose formulations contain thimerosal, a mercury-based
preservative meant to prevent the growth of bacteria and fungus in the
vaccine. The single-dose formulation produced by Novartis also contains
trace amounts of thimerosal.
Read more: http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/chemical_ingredients_found_in_the_h1n1_vaccine#ixzz0VLdjfXLn

Deaths relating to this new strain of influenza began appearing in the
US in late April, and by early June 15 states had reported fatalities
related to or directly occurring from the virus. These deaths totaled
at 1,240 as of October 24, 2009.

Only 1,240 deaths in a country with over 300 million people....sounds like a pandemic to me.

If it stays under control, then great. The only thing that scares me is the ability to kill normally healthy people.

Its the seniors... they actually developed this flu to teach all us young wippersnapper how it feels to die from the flu

Bartron wrote:If it stays under control, then great. The only thing that scares me is the ability to kill normally healthy people.

Normal seasonal flu has killed healthy young people in the past. One example was the little girl who was in poltergeist, she died from the flu and she had no underlying medical problems.

Goth_chic wrote:

Bartron wrote:If it stays under control, then great. The only thing that scares me is the ability to kill normally healthy people.

Normal seasonal flu has killed healthy young people in the past. One example was the little girl who was in poltergeist, she died from the flu and she had no underlying medical problems.

Well my wife is high risk (she works in a hospital) and is getting the shot. She will be my guinea pig!

the poll is flawed.
I am allowed to get the toxin.
If armed government thugs pin me down and shoot me up I will get the vaccine.
I read that swine flu deaths are in a neck in neck race with leprosy.

My biggest concern is the way they are delivering this vaccine to pregnant women as opposed to everyone else. If the adjuvanted vaccine is not safe for pregnant women because it might cause complications to the mom and/or the baby why is it safe for the rest of us. The vaccine for pregnant women has yet to arrive in Canada so it isn't available to this supposed high risk group. As well, this vaccine without the adjuvant is only available to pregnant women, if I were to go into a clinic and ask to have that vaccine as opposed to the adjuvanted vaccine I would be refused because I am not pregnant.
My daughter who has a 7 month old has yet to decide whether she will vaccinate her child and the only way I will even consider it is if our family doctor recommends that we all do for the baby's sake. I trust my doctor as he is also a family friend and I have been going to him for 30+ years. If he does not insist then I will not be going for it.
I also talked to a friend of mine who is an gastro-enterologist (stomach surgeon) and she indicated that because she works at HSC and is in contact with the internal organs of people on a daily basis she was "forced" to have the vaccine. If given the choice she would have chosen not to have it. As well a co-worker has family in Argentina of which 2 are doctors. They happen to be on the opposite seasonal system from us and their flu season is over without any adverse affects on the population of more than 5 million in Buenos Aires. They barely heard anything about H1N1 at all on the news or in print.
And just because the government is telling you to get it is not enough for me to listen. One other thing to consider when trying to rationalize "blame". If you have yourself or your child immunized and there are permanent, long term disabling side effects, GlaxoSmithKlein (the maker of the Canadian vaccine) cannot be held responsible because this vaccine was approved under a EUA agreement. Under an EUA approval, the vaccine is approved and moved out quickly before long term testing has been doen to see what, if any side effect can and do occur. So IMO the drug companies and the government is wiping their hands clean if you happen to be one of the unfortunate ones to have a serious side effect and it is because of their vaccine.

Miz_point, my sister-in-law has MS as well and she has been advised by her neurologist to not get this shot because of the possiblilty of the autoimmune side effects it may cause. Her immune system is already being battered by her illness and this vaccine could cause even more harm that prevention.

The WHO released another study yesterday detailing the list of 6 items that if we properly addressed would get rid of 12 million needless deaths per year.
childhood underweight,
unsafe sex,
alcohol use,
lack of safe water,
sanitation and hygiene,
high blood pressure
12 MILLION PER YEAR... which is only about 100 times what they estimate that swine flu MIGHT kill
how come the world is not freaking out and demand everyone get the cure for all those things?
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/health_risks_report_20091027/en/index.html

Deank wrote:The WHO released another study yesterday detailing the list of 6 items that if we properly addressed would get rid of 12 million needless deaths per year.
childhood underweight,
unsafe sex,
alcohol use,
lack of safe water,
sanitation and hygiene,
high blood pressure
12 MILLION PER YEAR...

Yikes, the world is already bursting at the seams with people. There may be some advantage to these non-violent means of population control!

Deank wrote:Yeah and apparently now they are saying we should do the vaccinations in school. Which would mean my children would be "outed" and ostrasized in school. We already have people screaming that those who dont get immunized should stay home and lock ourselves in the basement. Now this would give them a way of watching it.

Think of this. If you get the shot. it may take 6 to 9 weeks for your body to be able to fight the H1N1. You would not be out of the woods for upto 9 weeks after the shot.

I thought it was 2 to 4... but yeah... it sure aint instant.

AND something I read on WRHA seemed to allude to the shot only protecting you for like 6 months.... which I find bizarre.

Most people I know who work in the medical field are not getting vaccinated. That speaks volumes on the safety of this vaccine.

Goth_chic wrote:

Bartron wrote:If it stays under control, then great. The only thing that scares me is the ability to kill normally healthy people.

Normal seasonal flu has killed healthy young people in the past. One example was the little girl who was in poltergeist, she died from the flu and she had no underlying medical problems.

Of course seasonal flu "has killed healthy young people in the past". I'm pretty sure children have died from being stamped by elephants too.
Instead of sitting in front of a computer all day surfing the internet for information, and posting all measures of misinformation and anectodes, why not SPEAK TO YOUR DOCTOR?
I am so thankful I am not your child.

I do.

Because for the most part doctors dont have all the information that the internet does and quite frankly the doctors have incorrect information in some circumstances.


And WELCOME to the sandbox Chester!

Chester wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:

Bartron wrote:If it stays under control, then great. The only thing that scares me is the ability to kill normally healthy people.

Normal seasonal flu has killed healthy young people in the past. One example was the little girl who was in poltergeist, she died from the flu and she had no underlying medical problems.

Of course seasonal flu "has killed healthy young people in the past". I'm pretty sure children have died from being stamped by elephants too.
Instead of sitting in front of a computer all day surfing the internet for information, and posting all measures of misinformation and anectodes, why not SPEAK TO YOUR DOCTOR?
I am so thankful I am not your child.

Wow....pretty harsh.....not very nice.

Chester wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:

Bartron wrote:If it stays under control, then great. The only thing that scares me is the ability to kill normally healthy people.

Normal seasonal flu has killed healthy young people in the past. One example was the little girl who was in poltergeist, she died from the flu and she had no underlying medical problems.

Of course seasonal flu "has killed healthy young people in the past". I'm pretty sure children have died from being stamped by elephants too.
Instead of sitting in front of a computer all day surfing the internet for information, and posting all measures of misinformation and anectodes, why not SPEAK TO YOUR DOCTOR?
I am so thankful I am not your child.

For your information, I have spoken to my kids pediatrician and he says to do whatever we feel is right. I still haven't decided what is right for my family.

I am also thankful you are not my child, cause if you were I would be regretting not having that abortion which I am sure your mother regrets as well.

See Miz p I can also be harsh...

LOL

ahh.. finally some "data" as to how many people had it so far.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/national/south/cdc_up_to_6_million_swine_flu_cases_in_few_months_1256837138630
ATLANTA (AP) - Health officials think that as many as 5.7 million Americans were infected with swine flu during the first few months of the pandemic.
Scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that between 1.8 million and 5.7 million Americans were infected from April through July. The estimate is the CDC's most specific calculation to date. Officials had simply been saying millions have been infected.
The estimate is in an article in a CDC publication called Emerging Infectious Diseases.

only an estimate though ...

Deank wrote:ahh.. finally some "data" as to how many people had it so far.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/national/south/cdc_up_to_6_million_swine_flu_cases_in_few_months_1256837138630
ATLANTA (AP) - Health officials think that as many as 5.7 million Americans were infected with swine flu during the first few months of the pandemic.
Scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that between 1.8 million and 5.7 million Americans were infected from April through July. The estimate is the CDC's most specific calculation to date. Officials had simply been saying millions have been infected.
The estimate is in an article in a CDC publication called Emerging Infectious Diseases.

only an estimate though ...

Probably more then that have been infected. Only a little over 2,000 have died since April and millions have been infected? I'll take my chances.

now that we have some numbers lets do some calculations
308 million people in total
556 people dead from swine flu during first wave
worst case... that is 556 out of 1.8 million
best case that is 556 out of 5.7 million

308 / 1.8 = 171.1
so worst case 556x171.1 = 95131.6 people will die
308/ 5.7 = 54.03
so best case 556x54.03 = 30040.68 people will die


Anyone else find those numbers far to close to the exact numbers that the white house put out as estimates? Almost seems like they taylored the previous number of infections to be numbers that would end up equaling what the white house predicted.