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NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work?

+7
EdWin
AGEsAces
Mantha
umcrouc0
Deank
grumpy old man
LivingDead
11 posters

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1NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:57 pm

LivingDead

LivingDead
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Cherry picking 'Peg Coyotes will be ours, Grapes predicts

On a morning radio show, Cherry stated the Phoenix Coyotes -- the financially and attendance-strapped club that once skated here as the Jets -- will be on the MTS Centre ice for the 2010-11 season.

I'd actually buy tickets to Jets games.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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I was a Jets season ticket holder for many years before moving to Toronto.

I'd certainly consider buying them again. I guess I'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

LivingDead

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grumpy old man wrote:I was a Jets season ticket holder for many years before moving to Toronto.

I'd certainly consider buying them again. I guess I'll cross that bridge when the time comes.


That is a bridge I hope you have to cross. I would love to be able to take my kids to see the Winnipeg Jets play. I think a team here is viable more so now than before. with the salary cap and revenue sharing. no problems.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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And a decent building even if it only holds 15k...

Deank

Deank
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build up.. put a third level on

umcrouc0

umcrouc0
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Don't think ticket sales would be too much of a problem. But we'd need corporate support. I'd buy tickets.

Mantha

Mantha
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The cheapest 42 game season ticket package for the Moose is around $500-600.

I would much rather pay the same amount to see 3 or 4 Jets games of NHL caliber players and stars, and would do so in a heartbeat.

I'm married to a WestJetter, and often travel to Ottawa to see Sens games for criminally cheap airfare prices. Every time I go, I'm shocked at how much FASTER and entertaining the NHL is compared to the Moozzzzzzzzze.

http://yaciuk.blogspot.com

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
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Really? And I haven't seen the difference...at least not in the last decade or so.

Might be more "hype" going on...but game seems to go at about the same pace...MAYBE a couple less missed passes...but generally...the same play...for 1/2 the price the NHL charges.

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

Deank
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Moose hockey just seems so sllooooooowww to me. Its like most of them realize that their chances of going anywhere are very slim so they dont make the effort.

10NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:16 pm

Mantha

Mantha
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AGEsAces wrote:Really? And I haven't seen the difference...at least not in the last decade or so.

Might be more "hype" going on...but game seems to go at about the same pace...MAYBE a couple less missed passes...but generally...the same play...for 1/2 the price the NHL charges.

Have you been to any recent NHL games, and are we talking being at the game or watching on TV?

Either way, for a guy who follows the AHL pretty closely, it would be worth it to me to pay twice as much as a Moose ticket to see players that I know and am familiar with, and who stick with the team for a period of time.

I can't be bothered to memorize players in a league with constant demotions/promotions like the AHL.

http://yaciuk.blogspot.com

11NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:00 pm

EdWin

EdWin
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Glad to see that this type of thread is very positive. There is no doubt that Winnipeg can support an NHL team. It's just getting corporate support, and I can't see that taking too much longer to figure out (maybe a couple of years or so). We have so many floundering southern American teams to pick from; it's just a matter of time.

I hope eastsider is reading this! But likely not, as expected with his selective reading. NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Icon_smile



Last edited by EdWin on Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

12NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:07 pm

Bartron

Bartron
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Deank wrote:Moose hockey just seems so sllooooooowww to me. Its like most of them realize that their chances of going anywhere are very slim so they dont make the effort.

Obviously the NHL is better than the AHL, but I disagree with that statement. It seems your thinking of the old Moose who played in the IHL and were a farm team of a farm team. The Moose are now the primary affiliate of the Canucks. Just look at the Canucks roster a ton of there guys played for the Moose. It's not just a bunch of washed up NHL guys. It seems like it's mostly future NHL'ers.

13NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:08 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
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Mantha wrote:
AGEsAces wrote:Really? And I haven't seen the difference...at least not in the last decade or so.

Might be more "hype" going on...but game seems to go at about the same pace...MAYBE a couple less missed passes...but generally...the same play...for 1/2 the price the NHL charges.

Have you been to any recent NHL games, and are we talking being at the game or watching on TV?

Either way, for a guy who follows the AHL pretty closely, it would be worth it to me to pay twice as much as a Moose ticket to see players that I know and am familiar with, and who stick with the team for a period of time.

I can't be bothered to memorize players in a league with constant demotions/promotions like the AHL.

Last NHL game I attended was in Philadelphia about 8 years go...so it's been awhile...but I went to a Moose game shortly after arriving here 5 years ago...and it didn't seem much different...a bit quieter (audience wise) is all.

I'll agree with part of that statement though...about the Moose players changing. Personally...I think all professional (any level) sports should have to pick their roster at the beginning of the season, and barring season-ending injuries/illnesses...not be allowed to change it at all. So (in the Moose case)...Vancouver is stuck with what they start with, and the Moose are in Winnipeg for the season...not a bunch of changes each game with farming.

http://www.photage.ca

14NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:15 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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Not so much each game Ages, although that is sometimes a problem. But year to year...

As for comparing the two leagues? Night and day. Night and day. I've been to a few Moose games and I have to say I was disappointed in both the caliber of play and the intensity. I fully expected the AHL players to be playing every game as if it were their last chance to get to the NHL. Not what I've seen.

You'll see what I mean Ages when the Jets return!

15NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:35 pm

Guest

Anonymous
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Bartron wrote:
Deank wrote:Moose hockey just seems so sllooooooowww to me. Its like most of them realize that their chances of going anywhere are very slim so they dont make the effort.

Obviously the NHL is better than the AHL, but I disagree with that statement. It seems your thinking of the old Moose who played in the IHL and were a farm team of a farm team. The Moose are now the primary affiliate of the Canucks. Just look at the Canucks roster a ton of there guys played for the Moose. It's not just a bunch of washed up NHL guys. It seems like it's mostly future NHL'ers.

Not sure if you were ever familiar with the IHL, but the league was superior to the AHL. The "I" even expanded to all areas of the US and Canada, and put teams in major US markets, in an effort to oneday compete with the NHL.
Unfortunately the travel costs were too much, and the expansion was too quick. it is what ultimately sunk the IHL. I think you may be thinking of the ECHL.

IHL Teams:

CHICAGO WOLVES*
DETROIT VIPERS
HOUSTON AEROS*
MILWAUKEE ADMIRALS*
MINNESOTA/MANITOBA MOOSE*
PHOENIX ROADRUNNERS
SAN DIEGO GULLS
LOS ANGELES ICE DOGS
DENVER/UTAH GRIZZLIES*
CLEVELAND LUMBERJACKS
CINCINNATI CYCLONE
ATLANTA KNIGHTS
KANSAS CITY BLADES
LAS VEGAS THUNDER
ORLANDO SOLAR BEARS
GRAND RAPIDS GRIFFINS*

16NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:23 pm

Triniman

Triniman
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The Jets were a part of my life, as they were for many people. I followed them closely and would love to see them return, but I just don't know about the economics of having an NHL team here under the current conditions. Greed has ruined the NHL for me, as it has ruined much of professional sport.

If a family can't afford to take in several NHL games a year, then ticket prices are too high. And salaries could be the major reason for that.

This will never happen, but I'd like to see the NHL fold and open up again with players still be the highest paid in the world, but not having them so much money that families -- the source of future NHL talent -- can't afford to take in several home games.

If the Jets came back, I'd split season tickets with a group of friends.

17NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:36 am

rosencrentz

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What were tickets the last year the Jets were here?
The payroll I believe was about $15,000,000 that year , if my memory serves me right.
Is the payroll $45,000,000 today?
Then 30,000,000 divided by 15,000 would add $2,000 divided by 40 games =$50 additional per ticket.
So if tickets were $40? add another $50= $90 per ticket.

$90 per ticket is unreasonable! In my humble opinion. $40 is too much for an NHL ticket in my humble opinion.
The players are paid so much money, that the ordinary person living on Wellington Crescent would go broke taking his 2 youg boys to a game!

http://www.elansofas.com

18NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:06 pm

Outsider

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rosencrentz wrote:What were tickets the last year the Jets were here?
The payroll I believe was about $15,000,000 that year , if my memory serves me right.
Is the payroll $45,000,000 today?

I thought I read the salary cap for the 2009/2010 season was closer to $57 million.
Somehow I just can not imagine Winnipeg operating in that stratosphere.

19NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:52 pm

EdWin

EdWin
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Outsider wrote:
rosencrentz wrote:What were tickets the last year the Jets were here?
The payroll I believe was about $15,000,000 that year , if my memory serves me right.
Is the payroll $45,000,000 today?

I thought I read the salary cap for the 2009/2010 season was closer to $57 million.
Somehow I just can not imagine Winnipeg operating in that stratosphere.

It's not about if "Winnipeg" can do it. "Winnipeg" will not own the team. "Winnipeg" will not pay the players salaries. The CITIZENS of Winnipeg WILL support the team because there is a substantial fan base to support it. The only road block is finding a backer to relocate a team to the city. And it will likely happen in a few years time.

20NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:03 pm

Deank

Deank
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I have never understood why so many of these rich guys want to own professional sports teams when so many of them loose so much money in a year it aint even funny.

21NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:59 am

LivingDead

LivingDead
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rosencrentz wrote:What were tickets the last year the Jets were here?
The payroll I believe was about $15,000,000 that year , if my memory serves me right.
Is the payroll $45,000,000 today?
Then 30,000,000 divided by 15,000 would add $2,000 divided by 40 games =$50 additional per ticket.
So if tickets were $40? add another $50= $90 per ticket.

$90 per ticket is unreasonable! In my humble opinion. $40 is too much for an NHL ticket in my humble opinion.
The players are paid so much money, that the ordinary person living on Wellington Crescent would go broke taking his 2 youg boys to a game!

Salary cap for 2009/2010 is 56.8 million and the minimum pay roll is 40.8

NHL Salary Cap

The NHL salary cap is formally titled the "Upper Limit of the Payroll Range"
in the new CBA. For the 2005–06 NHL season, the salary cap was set at US$39
million per team, with a maximum of $7.8 million (20% of the team's
cap) for a player. Revenues for the six Canadian teams have all
increased significantly since the lockout, and due to the fact the
Canadian dollar rose to briefly reach parity with its U.S. counterpart
(the Canadian dollar has since fallen to around 88 US cents, still
significantly above its lows around 2000), league-wide revenues
measured in U.S. dollars have been inflated accordingly.
As a result of these factors, the cap has been raised each year to its current
figure of $56.8 million for the 2009–10 season,
with a cap of $11.36 million for a player.[4]


The CBA also contains a "Lower Limit of the Payroll Range", which is
the minimum that each team must pay in player salaries. The lower limit was originally set at 55% of the cap, but is now defined to be $16 million below the cap; therefore
the 2009–10 minimum is $40.8 million. The difference between the salary
cap and a team's actual payroll is referred to as the team's "payroll
room" or "cap room". Each year of an NHL player contract, the salary
earned contributes to the team's "cap hit". The basic cap hit of a
contract for each year it is effective is the total money a player will
earn in regular salary over the life of the contract divided by the
number of years it is effective. This prevents a team from paying a
player different amounts each year in order to load his cap hit in
years in which the team has more cap room. Teams still use this
practice, however, for other reasons.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

22NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:49 am

umcrouc0

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Individual tickets are only one form of revenue for a team. There are individual tickets, corporate boxes, concession, merchandise, TV revenue, etc. But player salary is also only one part of the cost of running a team. There are players, coaching staff, support staff, travel costs, agreements with the arena, etc. Would take a bit of work to figure out the true monthly or annual cost of running a team and how much they would need to bring in per year in the current system. But I think it's possible for us to support one. At least better than a lot of teams in the South. They are practically giving away tickets. Even teams like Washington have crazy specials to fill up the arena. It's amazing how cheap a lot of the tickets are.

23NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:23 pm

Outsider

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But do we have people in Winnipeg who are prepared to put their own cash on the line for the honor of owning a team (Without their potential losses being covered by the governments ie: the taxpayers ???)



Last edited by Outsider on Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)

24NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:33 pm

grumpy old man

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Outsider wrote:But do we have people in Winnipeg who are prepared to put their own cash on the line for the honor of owning a team (Without their potential losses being covered by the governments ie: the taxpayers ???)
I think that is the million dollar question. I think there are very few uber-millionaires in Winnipeg (or elsewhere) that are willing to throw their money into such a venture.

25NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Empty Re: NHL + Winnipeg ? Dream or Can it Work? Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:08 pm

LivingDead

LivingDead
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umcrouc0 wrote:Individual tickets are only one form of revenue for a team. There are individual tickets, corporate boxes, concession, merchandise, TV revenue, etc. But player salary is also only one part of the cost of running a team. There are players, coaching staff, support staff, travel costs, agreements with the arena, etc. Would take a bit of work to figure out the true monthly or annual cost of running a team and how much they would need to bring in per year in the current system. But I think it's possible for us to support one. At least better than a lot of teams in the South. They are practically giving away tickets. Even teams like Washington have crazy specials to fill up the arena. It's amazing how cheap a lot of the tickets are.


The one thing that would kill any NHL team in Winnipeg would be "Winnipeg Enterprises" As long as the city and other levels of government keep their advice to themselves and stay out of the business of running a NHL franchise then everything will be ok.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

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