Hydro DiscrimiNation

Except they don't want to work at Tim's... But it is not the Opasqia reserve.

death128 wrote:Regardless of how the Chiefs press the no schools issue I don't believe that the lack of schools is the main point.

The main point is getting these children engaged in their school work. I would love to have the opportunity to be chief in one of the smaller remote reserves so I can attempt getting the children more engaged in school work and the community as well as developing future leaders. I don't think there ARE any true attempts at doing this.

As for Hydro, they see a problem right now and they're taking action at addressing some of the problems. This is good, especially since Hydro has historically created some of these problems in addition to the fact that the crown has encroached on First Nations land for generations. This will additionally give the opportunity for the various communities to benefit from hard working, well trained individuals when they return to their communities (Which will have long-term impact).

Etc. Etc.

Right On
Yes you are right and the change has to come from the natives them selves , They have to learn to take tradition and the new to a balance , from which the respect of both can be achieved . Unless you fully appreciate there culture and ways which are different , the prejudice will never die .
To those that think it is because they are lazy , you really do not know the problem,s .

Pavolo said, " Unless you fully appreciate there culture and ways which are different , the prejudice will never die . "
Interesting. Can you shed some light on this? Give some examples?

There love of the land to the point that it is there mother from which all comes, and there different thoughts on bringing up children .
The way they never say no to someone at the door but welcome them to the table . The elders believe in sustenance from the land , sad to say most have lost it today the ability to do it . What has happened to them , because of Hydro was the result of a plan that once again did not include them , in its workings . This silly way has been dropped thank god .

I find it funny how as long as the whites get the jobs there is no problem but when the natives are maybe given the chance too there is a problem . Yes it would be nice if they did not get a special deal but they do just like , just like our forefathers got with beaver pelts . No one whined about there profits then did they .
As I said before the times are changing and for them it is going to be better.

Pavolo wrote:There love of the land to the point that it is there mother from which all comes, and there different thoughts on bringing up children .
The way they never say no to someone at the door but welcome them to the table . The elders believe in sustenance from the land , sad to say most have lost it today the ability to do it . What has happened to them , because of Hydro was the result of a plan that once again did not include them , in its workings . This silly way has been dropped thank god .

I find it funny how as long as the whites get the jobs there is no problem but when the natives are maybe given the chance too there is a problem . Yes it would be nice if they did not get a special deal but they do just like , just like our forefathers got with beaver pelts . No one whined about there profits then did they .
As I said before the times are changing and for them it is going to be better.

You ARE kidding here, right Pav?

Love of the land?
Have you ever BEEN to one of these reserves?
Have you visited the northern reserves like Lac Brochet, or S. Indian Lake? How about Shamatawah?

You think any of them cares about the land? They pollute the land more than the city of Winnipeg. They pollute themselves even more.

No...they've convinced themselves that they are "entitled" to something...and that the "white man" is responsible for all their woes. Whether the "white man" had anything to do with it or not...does not matter. They (in general) have no respect for anyone or anything...even themselves.

Pavolo wrote:I find it funny how as long as the whites get the jobs there is no problem but when the natives are maybe given the chance too there is a problem . Yes it would be nice if they did not get a special deal but they do just like , just like our forefathers got with beaver pelts . No one whined about there profits then did they .

I actually take offense to this. I WANT the natives to get themselves employed. And especially in trades as they are easily transferable skills and there is a huge demand for tradesmen.

Not sure how beaver pelts relate to this very specific topic unless you are defaulting to "blame the white man" for everything wrong in that society today as well.

What some people are upset with in this very specific instance is a hand up is being given to natives only. They are not upset that natives are being helped.

Big difference. I'm sure that is plain to see eh?

probably

Yeah...I think you're misunderstanding me Pav.

I have no problem helping those who NEED help...and those with learning disabilities, or who have not had opportunity or training should be able to get it....and be assisted IF required.

But this is a blatant discriminatory action, targeting a group because of RACE...NOT limitations. If they had said "those who may not have met the academic requirements in the past (ie. without GED or Diploma) may still be able to apply", that would tell me they have a testing or training program which has adapted to accommodate those who may not have had "formal education".

But that's not what they said...they said "Aboriginals who..." so if I am a "white guy" with limited education...then that means I can't apply...simply because I'm white...and THAT'S discrimination and racism.

In this case it could depend on where the pay for the education is coming from.
I know at KCC (now University College of the North or some other insane garbage). They had to introduce college prep for students who did not meet the entrance requirements for regular college courses. One year later they introduced PRE-College prep because so many of the kids failed the college preps first year so badly. Most of the funding for this came from INAC or Bands themselves.
So if the Band or INAC have worked out an agreement with hydro where they will pay for training to upgrade people who actually show an interest in working thats great. If however its Hydro themselves, thats extremely bad.
HOWEVER... if INAC/Bands have done this. Then it should be something that EI does as well.

Perhaps...but if it's something that INAC/Bands have created...then the proposals should be made within the Nations themselves...not in a publicly advertised Hydro initiative.

Those programs should be completed prior to even applying to Hydro...or else Hydro should list them as officially "recognized" programs and accepted in lieu of other formerly expected educations.

These programs were part of the agreements with the bands to get the right to build the dam . Unlike the 70s where they were offered the pissy jobs now they are to be trained positions .

Yes I have been on every one of the places mentioned probaly more then most on here and the problem that you describe is the result of poverty and Drugs and gas snifffing . We tend to forget that these places were our idea not there's .

And while it is tragic it is also apparent that some people forget they are more then welcome to move off the reserves.

To what a life of more poverty in the city where most won't look a true native in the face and give them the time of day.

At least there are more support programs in the city, AND the potential for jobs if you want to work AND better access to medical and more importantly.. Booze is legal and costs less then $75 per mickey. Hell making alcohol legal on the reserves would go a good chunk of the way to helping simply because less money would be spent on bootleg liquor and other things like gas and glue and whatnot.

And this goes back to that addiction thread.

If these people truly cared about the world/land they lived in (or anything at all for that matter), they would make the most out of what they have. Their homes & areas would be pristine and well taken care of, and their society as a whole would be excelling, not the complete opposite.

Yes if what they had was truly theres it is not it is given to them by you and me through our goverment .
If you were put on land that you were told is your home and to be happy , your children were taken to be brainwashed into being white , and the foreign majority farm and live where you used to . Think you might not be bitter I think so. No matter what we took, what was there,s , and used the Treaties as a means to justify it .
The sad results of the things we do are coming back to haunt us now . Not that they are blameless but it has started with us .

Pavolo wrote:Yes if what they had was truly theres it is not it is given to them by you and me through our goverment .
If you were put on land that you were told is your home and to be happy , your children were taken to be brainwashed into being white , and the foreign majority farm and live where you used to . Think you might not be bitter I think so. No matter what we took what was there,s and used the Treaties as a means to justify it .
The sad results of the things we do are coming back to haunt us now . Not that they are blameless but it has started with us .

I seriously doubt any of those living on the Reserves were around when all those things were happening.

You're implication was that it was generations of "loving the land" and "caring for nature"...and because of a setback from something beyond their control, they sit in their shacks and sniff (whatever)?

What would've happened had a major flood cut them off from their lands...and pushed them north? What would've happened if the animals they hunt were suddenly to move somewhere, and they were forced to follow? But because they can lay blame and "DEMAND" reparation...they will sit in filth and get high? perpetuating that upon their children?

No...while the circumstances their ANCESTORS were given were not done by choice...they still have a choice as to what to do with their lives.

Pavolo wrote:Yes if what they had was truly theres it is not it is given to them by you and me through our goverment .
If you were put on land that you were told is your home and to be happy , your children were taken to be brainwashed into being white , and the foreign majority farm and live where you used to . Think you might not be bitter I think so. No matter what we took what was there,s and used the Treaties as a means to justify it .
The sad results of the things we do are coming back to haunt us now . Not that they are blameless but it has started with us .

I lived in rental properties most of my life. Because I wanted to live in an environment that I could be proud of I looked after the property. If a window was dirty I washed it. If a door had loose hinges I tightened them. I also cut the grass and shoveled the snow.

This is what most people do no matter their circumstances.

As for being bitter... How's that working for them? How about we lose that woe-is-me attitude and start trying to improve their lot in life themselves.

Did not the Europeans come here, to escape a bad life or to get a better one . Why did they think that it was theres to make the natives bow to there ways . We have pushed them out of the best and took it for our selves .

In a nut shell this is what we have done and the treaties were to make us feel okay doing it . We say they could have shared in the dream we brought , cept we made the conditions to high. They just wanted to be equal and we put them under the Indian Act, funny they had no say in that either.

Yes many of the problems they have today are their own making , and up to them to solve. But the hand out we taught them so stop complaining . At least they learned something of our culture as we gave it to them.

Nope. Will not stop complaining. I abhor these excuses. If we stop accepting excuses maybe they will stop playing them. Enough is enough. So don't tell me to stop complaining. Maybe I stop with the complaints when you stop with the excuses. How does that sound?

As for why people moved here 300, 400, 500 years ago... There are a myriad of reasons. They were exploring. Found a land they liked just like the natives did. And decided to stay. Just like the natives did.

The Europeans brought a new civilization with them. Farming and ranching. Cities and farms. They developed the land. And I guess when they found resistance they overcame it.

BTW how did tribe A handle resistance when they encountered Tribe B? Was there any fighting or did they just agree to share the land? Is that not what happened with the Europeans?

Simplistic as hell but that's just the way things were back then.

By the way I was not there. I think rosen was. Maybe JTF. Talk to them about how receptive the Indians were to our culture.

Pavolo wrote:Did not the Europeans come here, to escape a bad life or to get a better one . Why did they think that it was theres to make the natives bow to there ways . We have pushed them out of the best and took it for our selves .

In a nut shell this is what we have done and the treaties were to make us feel okay doing it . We say they could have shared in the dream we brought , cept we made the conditions to high. They just wanted to be equal and we put them under the Indian Act, funny they had no say in that either.

Yes many of the problems they have today are their own making , and up to them to solve. But the hand out we taught them so stop complaining . At least they learned something of our culture as we gave it to them.

So lets turn history back a couple of hundred years. So I guess I get to pack up my family and head to either Wales or Ukraine, but it wasn't Ukraine when my grandparents came here, so where do I go? When we all leave, who would then support the Aboriginal population in the manner they are accustomed to?

Time to step away from the past and start moving forward.

As said you have taught the hand out well Freemen and we invented it we started it and now we wrestle with what it has become . It was so much easier then including the heathens .

Oh Jeez Pav....everything is the whiteman's fault eh?

How do you teach entitlement?

I never said that but if it bothers you . No it is not but we did make the system that is there so who is to blame .

Pavolo wrote:As said you have taught the hand out well Freemen and we invented it we started it and now we wrestle with what it has become . It was so much easier then including the heathens .

I never taught anyone about "hand outs". Don't include me in your "we" comments. If you're feeling guilty, don't spread it my way.

But like any discussion with you, just deflect, minimize or change the subject, or better yet, blame it on Harper.