Police Trap : For Cyclists?

Is there a map of existing paths on the City website?

yup

http://www.winnipeg.ca/PublicWorks/MajorProjects/ActiveTransportation/

There's also bike route signs along various roadways, but somehow motorists are still unaware of what that means. My boyfriend thought that the bike route signs on Regent meant that cyclists could use the sidewalk and therefore he had a right to complain about every cyclist he saw on the street. ha!

"My boyfriend thought that the bike route signs on Regent meant that cyclists could use the sidewalk and therefore he had a right to complain about every cyclist he saw on the street. ha!"
LOL... man oh man... thats funny

holly golightly wrote:Next time you are approaching the Osborne Bridge take a good look and you will see the no bike signs posted.

Are you sure about that? The only signs I have seen are "Cyclists dismount before entering on bridge". I will have to take a look and maybe take some pics.

For the record, I cycle April to October...

I cycle whenever there isn't snow on the street.

Wow...quite the discussions happening on this topic.

First...anny...please stop breaking the law . Makes other cyclists look bad (not to mention yourself), and gives more excuses for those dumb motorists who argue that cyclists have no respect for the rules.

That said, your complaint about people "rolling through" stop signs...may be unfounded in some areas. Unless there's an actual stop line or cross walk PAINTED or marked...vehicles do NOT have to stop before the stop sign, or the sidewalk. They must only stop before they enter the intersection. So check the intersection again to see if it's marked. (there's an MPI "60 Second Driver" that covers this if you want to go check it out)

The rules are plain and simple in the HTA. If your bicycle rear tire is larger than 18", you don't ride on the sidewalk unless the sidewalk is marked for bicycle use. Plain and simple. There's no exceptions, no "but cars are dangerous", no "but I'm scared".

If you can't follow those rules...park the bike and walk...or take the bus. But stay off the sidewalk.

I've put a proposal together to give to the city. For only $2k we can FLOOD the city main route sidewalks with 2k small signs attached to light poles and sign posts telling bikes to stay off the sidewalk.

Education is the key to all of the problems. TEACH the cyclists what the rules are (many of them if you ask don't know). TEACH the motorists what the rules are...despite the fact they were issued a license...doesn't mean they know anything...just means they paid their fee and drove around the block a few times with someone who didn't want to be there in the first place.

Cycling is YEAR ROUND here in Winnipeg. Some of you may only see a few riders in the winter months. But I took note this year (and it was COLD). On the coldest days, I would still see a dozen or more bikes out. I'm sure there would be more if the roads weren't as icy/slushy as they were. On milder days, I'd see more like 2-3 dozen per day.

Cycling WILL increase over the next few years, as the governments keep pushing the "green" initiatives and fuel prices keep rising. Unless people start following the rules though...the incident rate will increase along with it...and then stupid laws will get passed as knee-jerk reactions to deal with stupid people. So educate yourself, educate your friends & family...and if you're on a bicycle...STAY OFF THE SIDEWALKS!!!

I bike to work all year round . Straight up Pembina from south of the perimeter to Portage & Main. Yes, that means winter too.

I can understand why some cyclists ride on the sidewalk. I don't agree with your whole commute on the sidewalk, but I understand. I ride in the left portion of the right tire track. That's approx 1 meter away from the curb, or just enough so a car has to make the lane change to get around me. Until I get buzzed enough, at that point I am right in the center. If you're a driver and won't make the lane change to go around me then I'm taking the full lane.

Do I run stop signs? I slow down and coast through only when there are no cars/cyclists/pedestrians around.

Do I run red lights? Nope.

Do I filter on the right. Yup, just like cars pull up beside me on the left when I am stopped.

Do I ride the sidewalk? Yes - occasionally one stretch between nassau and confusion corner heading north on pembina. The curb lane is an absolute mess. It's also nice to leapfrog the backed up traffic.

When I am on on the sidewalk - I treat it like I am a guest - I'm treading on the domain of the pedestrian. So that means slowing to almost a stop and passing on the grass. Coming to almost a complete stop before crossing a side street, etc. However, the sidewalk along pembina between nassau and confusion corner is pretty devoid of pedestrian traffic.

You want to get bikes off the sidewalk, and make things safer for everyone? Fix the curb lanes ( they are an absolute mess), and paint a diamond/bike lane down Pembina. Fixing the curb lane would go a long way to make things better.

Oh, and the line painted on the osborne bridge - I was told it was for snow plows/ street sweepers so that they could measure howw close they are to the curb - not sure if that is correct or not.

Sounds like you're (mostly) a "saint" their Norberter (get it? ).

Stop signs...yeah...stop & go when safe...but a stop on a bike could just mean braking, not actually putting your feet on the ground.

As far as your sidewalk jaunt...I'll still say STAY OFF THE SIDEWALKS!!!...take a lane and peddle through the intersection. If it means a few cars get backed up...too bad for them.

Your comment about riding up the right side of a line of traffic though. In some cases...it's actually allowed. For example if the right lane is used for parking, and there are cars parked...it's still a lane...and you therefor are allowed to move forward in it up to the light (or until you come to a vehicle across the lane line). That's where you'll save time in places like Portage Avenue. And if there's a shoulder, it's acceptable for bikes to use the shoulders too...so that would count as a "bike lane" of sorts. It's not for pedestrians...it's to allow for left-turning vehicles & wide loads...so is a travel area.

I agree about the curb lanes though. Just heading up/down Portage I see tons of potholes along the edge of the curb. Infrastructure is an obvious concern...but it's one that will only be addressed if the city sees a real need for it. If a sudden influx of cyclists hit the streets (instead of the sidewalks), they will see the need as bikes swerve around potholes, or debris on the roadway, and start forcing traffic to compensate.

Yikes! filtering along the right in a parking lane?!?! No thanks!

If there are parked cars, I'll make a lane change (signalled of course) into the center lane.

Of course I got doored by a parked car a couple of years back, so I am extra careful around parked cars.

There are quite a few sections on pembina that are really bad. It's almost easier to list the good sections!

You read my post wrong. I don't take the sidewalk because I don't want to back up traffic, I take the sidewalk because I don't want to wait in traffic!

"I take the sidewalk because I don't want to wait in traffic!"

yup... one of the people that pissed car drivers off..

St Norberter wrote:Yikes! filtering along the right in a parking lane?!?! No thanks!
If there are parked cars, I'll make a lane change (signalled of course) into the center lane.
Of course I got doored by a parked car a couple of years back, so I am extra careful around parked cars.

Yes...big risk...and not one I like taking all the time. Generally I ride ON the line...so a car door should not reach me, and a car going by on my left still has room to go by.

St Norberter wrote:You read my post wrong. I don't take the sidewalk because I don't want to back up traffic, I take the sidewalk because I don't want to wait in traffic!

Nope...didn't read it wrong...you should be waiting in traffic too

I can ALMOST agree with you on the passing on the right. Almost. We pass on the left because that is what we are supposed to do. And there is room. And eventually we will pass cyclists because they are slow moving traffic.

We don't pass you on the right. We don't pass multiple cars on the right. And keep doing at every intersection.

Do it for all I care but let's not claim it is a tit-for-tat response. I don't buy it. You pass all those cars on the right because you can. And if I am too close to the curb you scoot up the sidewalk or zig-zag around me on the left then back to the right side all the way up to the light. Then frequently through the light.

I see this every single day in the summer.

Today a cyclist blew through a four-way stop sign right into the path of a driver turning left in front of him. If not for that driver's reactions that cyclist would be a hurting unit. Or dead.

I think if we were to count the traffic transgressions of both drivers and cyclists there would be a HUGE preponderance of bad cyclists over bad drivers.

IMHO

Deank wrote:"I take the sidewalk because I don't want to wait in traffic!"

yup... one of the people that pissed car drivers off..

Hehe......you should have seen it a week or so ago. I was biking to work, stopped (in curb lane) on smith right at broadway (red light, I was right at the stop line). Delivery van comes up behind me and just lays on the horn. So I turned and waved at him, he honks again, I wave again. He keeps honking, so now I honk my horn ( 110 db air horn) and wave at him again. after this repeats about 10 times, he leans out the window and screams "Get on the sidewalk!!" ( The guy obviously wanted to make a right turn on red and was pissed that I was going straight, and therefore he couldn't make the turn)

So I turned around and said to him "NO! You! You get on the sidewalk!!'. The cyclist behind be almost fell over he was laughing so hard, and I got a thumbs up from the drivers in the other lanes, and approval from the pedestrians as well

should have took his license down and had him charged with counselling others to commit a crime

You are correct GOM...and that's an educational issue.

And it's not all cyclists. For example of you pulling close the curb...I do not ride around you or on the sidewalk to get by, I then stop and wait in line like I'm supposed to.

grumpy old man wrote:I can ALMOST agree with you on the passing on the right. Almost. We pass on the left because that is what we are supposed to do. And there is room. And eventually we will pass cyclists because they are slow moving traffic.

We don't pass you on the right. We don't pass multiple cars on the right. And keep doing at every intersection.

Do it for all I care but let's not claim it is a tit-for-tat response. I don't buy it. You pass all those cars on the right because you can. And if I am too close to the curb you scoot up the sidewalk or zig-zag around me on the left then back to the right side all the way up to the light. Then frequently through the light.

I see this every single day in the summer.

Today a cyclist blew through a four-way stop sign right into the path of a driver turning left in front of him. If not for that driver's reactions that cyclist would be a hurting unit. Or dead.

I think if we were to count the traffic transgressions of both drivers and cyclists there would be a HUGE preponderance of bad cyclists over bad drivers.

IMHO

I almost agree with everything you said.

I only take the sidewalk on the section of Pembina NB between Nassau & Confusion Corner (If traffic is bad and because the curb lane is absolute sh1t)

Other than that if I am filtering on the right, and I can't get by I wait in traffic like everyone else. When I'm coming home from work, I'm quite often waiting in rush hour traffic along with cars ( but man, diamond lanes are nice - can't believe how often I get honked at by cars behind me when I am in them though)

Do I like the fact that cyclists blow through 4 way stops with other cars around? Nope -gives us all a bad name.

Do I like the fact that cyclists blow through Red Lights? Nope -gives us all a bad name.

Do I like the fact that cyclists zip between lanes without signalling? Nope -gives us all a bad name.

Do I like the fact that cyclists ride without proper safety equipment ( helmet/lights)? Nope -gives us all a bad name.

Are there proportionely more bad cyclists than bad drivers? Considering I get passed by approx 100 cars on my ride home and I'll get buzzed by 2 or 3, probably.

But you are forgetting one thing.

If a cyclist rides like an idiot, and gets into an accident with a car, who gets hurt? The Cyclist. His actions lead to his injury.

If a driver drives like an idiot, and gets into an accident with a cyclist,
who gets hurt? The Cyclist. The actions of the driver impact someone who may be riding properly.

I ride like St. Norberter. I may have given the impression that I break the law all the time, but that's just 'cause I was trying to be up front about my cycling practices. I don't "blow" through stop signs or lights. I don't want to die or cause an accident.

As far as the stopping goes, please see here:

2	Where must a vehicle stop at an intersection with a sidewalk (crosswalk) and controlled by a stop sign?
	a.		just before the street
	b.		just before the stop sign
	c.		just before the sidewalk (crosswalk)
	d.		one car length or more before the sidewalk (crosswalk)

http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/dr_tips/stopsigns.html

It's stuck in my head from driver's ed because my teacher had an example of one of his former students getting a ticket for "failing to stop at a stop sign" when he had actually stopped behind the sidewalk, like he was supposed to, and then rolled ahead to check the roadway before proceeding into the intersection.

Also, the MPI commercial says the same thing. It's a common mistake to believe that you just need to stop before the intersection.

I agree that in a perfect world everyone should obey the law all the time. There are just some nonsensical traffic lights out there, though. For example, at the foot of the Esplanade Riel -- a lighted crosswalk would have sufficed. People press that button to walk ALL the time but have no patience to wait for the light to change. They just jaywalk as soon as there are no cars. Then, motorists have to sit and wait for 60 seconds for the light to change back while NO ONE is crossing.

I think I am a pretty considerate cyclist and driver. Normally I ride in the parking lane. It feels safer and I try to be aware of anyone exiting a car. Yes, I will take the right-side tire track (ie. take the lane) if I feel I am in a more dangerous situation, but then I will speed up to a high cadence to basically stay at the same pace as rush hour traffic (it's usually going might slow) and switch back to the curb lane as soon as possible. I make sure to signal when there is anyone else using the road around me and usually do even if there isn't.

I think the proportion of inconsiderate cyclists is about the same as drivers.

Same webpage...watch the video...and yes...before the crosswalk/sidewalk if there is one.

But your comment was about drivers pulling through the stop sign:

anny wrote:
Cars roll through stop signs ALL the freakin' time. It annoys the heck
out of me when they do that AND there are other
cars/pedestrians/cyclists trying to use the same intersection. It's FAR
more dangerous for a car to run a red or a stop sign than a cyclist.
And what about stopping behind the sidewalk?? How many cars follow that?

According to the video on that same page you linked...the stop sign plays no roll in indicating where to stop.
http://www.mpi.mb.ca/videos/60sec/StopSigns.wmv

Something I recently learned about what's acceptable here though...is using the right hand for signaling on a bike.

I was always taught "left hand only"...but according to everything I read, either hand is acceptable.

"I think the proportion of inconsiderate cyclists is about the same as drivers"
ahh but the cyclists are "morally superior" so the moment you have that, it increases the inconsiderateness. Why I heard that one cyclist even uses an airhorn.

Yes, I know the stop sign doesn't tell you where to stop. "Stop signs" is referring to a stop-sign controlled intersection. What I meant was many people don't stop at all when they see a stop sign, they just slow down and roll through -- unless there's a few cars waiting for their turn. You're supposed to come to a full stop behind the appropriate line (marked, continuation of sidewalk, crosswalk, etc.).

anny wrote:I agree that in a perfect world everyone should obey the law all the time. There are just some nonsensical traffic lights out there, though.

You want non-sensical traffic lights, check out Pembina & Waller. It used to be a controlled crosswalk, then because of all the high school students crossing for 15 minutes, they removed that and put in a traffic light. The light operates 24 hrs, even though the only traffic issue is highschool kids for 15 min. to make it worse, the light are only on Pembina, if you are on waller, then there is no traffic light for you, and the east side of pembina is a cop shop - if it is an emergency, why do they need a traffic light?

And don't get me started on Pembina & DeVos, or Waverly and Lake Crest, or Kenaston and Rothwell.

I know you said that cyclists don't need to. Is that an opinion or actual HTA law? I was taught full stop or 123 count. I think it's especially important for a car. The intersection that really bothers me that I use a lot is the one by Sister MacNamara School. You would think a school at the same corner would make people more careful.