Fiat tells union ... $19 per hour pay cut or we walk away from Chrysler.

The CAW should give there collective heads a shake a job is better then no job, and the chance that the auto makers could walk away from Canada . After all the Free Trade agreement would let them as long as they left some no skill jobs here like warehouse work .

Every day there are stories about what the union members earn, but none of them tell us what they earn by the hour!

Trinian has posted earlier, showing $29 per hour for Ford and $25 per hour for Japanese auto workers. All the other amounts are crap as far as I am concerned. $16 per hour for retired members is not a charge to the workers on the line. Benefits etc are all something else.
$29 per hour is not unreasonable, about $60,000 per year.
The old statement statistics don't lie, statisticians do seems to come into effect here. That is probably why the union is telling the company that we have given back enough!
The reporting is so poor on the subject! How are we supposed to figure anything out, when we are told the workers are earning $71 per hour?

I think it is the benifets that are killing Automakers

at least it sounds like the union is willing to take some sort of cut.. just a negotiated one.. not something forced down their throats..... you know so it looks to their members like they are doing their jobs.. heh... I have no doubt that there is a little bit of back room dealing going on here... Union says yeah we can take a pay cut.. but you know what.. how about you demand something outrageous in public... and then we will say no way and negotiate 75% of that with you...it will sell to our members like milk at a free pancake breakfast

oh wait thats right only big business is evil and underhanded.. a union would enver do something like that.

You are probaly right but for the union to have think of its self first is pathetic . And that is who it really cares about after all the dues will have to be rolled back too. They are as hollow as a Monday morning church.

A guy at Chrysler earns $34 / hour. It was announced on the CBC news last night.

That, my friends, is insane. imho

RC's right. All this crap talk about $71 an hour and then the union disputes it. Its like listening to a bunch of politicians. Just tell me what the hourly rate is and I can form my own opinion. Save the embellishment for later.

But we can't just look at hourly wages in a vacuum. In the big three they alone are outrageous. But you must include all related employee costs including benefit costs and pension costs.

The $34 was taken right from his pay stub. The balance of the 'hourly rate' does include payments to former workers.

Anybody know what former employees get for a pension cheque?

well now.. so $34..how is that insane exactly? Yes he might only push a button or some other such thing... But what is the cost of living in his area? Is $34 actually reasonable? Maybe we just need to move all the vehicle manufacturing jobs to Winnipeg. We are a more central hub for distribution anyway. Whats a person working at Boeing here in the peg make? Odds are that it is damn close to that too...

Well, I think $34 is an insane amount to pay somebody to put two tires on a car with the aid of machines.

In the past, they were able to do this because they passed these costs on to the consumer.

Now we have competition and those prices can no longer be sustained.

Fish or cut bait. Take a realistic amount or nothing at all I say.

and I think $17 is a crazy amount to pay someone to serve coffee... but in Calgary Tim Hortons was hiring people at that rate.

I too believe $34 is a crazy amount in Winnipeg for that job. But i have no clue if its crazy or not where they live

You can buy a house in Detroit for a dollar eh.

LOL true... forgot about that

yeah the bastards make too much!

The unions were indeed too good....too successful. The socialists believe that that guy putting on those wheels should own a piece of the company without any investment or exposure through the back door.

Cost of living is one very small part, but many of the communities these plants are in would not be particularly more expensive than Winnipeg. Windsor and Oshawa for example...

Considering we do not have very many jobs left for these workers skills , I sure would think twice about the union mouthpeice telling me to say no.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/22/9208836-cp.html

costs explained by CAW

payments during down time and layoff periods should not count towards teh hourly...your right.. they shouldn't.. you should not be paid during those times.

The company is saying that they include all costs as, costs are costs. However, the unions say that if the workers didn't incur the costs they shouldn't be counted....an absurd position to rationalize imo.

But CAW economist Jim Stanford said in an analysis that this
calculation includes several costs that shouldn’t be attributed to
labour, including payroll taxes paid directly to the government,
expenses associated with downtime and layoffs, and legacy costs.

This is absurd. I wonder what gumball machine he got his credentials out of.

Payroll taxes are a direct cost attributable to labour, so is CPP, EI, pension contributions, etc. It's called wages and benefits. Any cost you have to pay that is as a result of having a person work for you (such as hourly wage, vacation pay, government remittances, pension, employee training, WCB premiums, recruiting costs) are considered labour costs.

In reality though it boils down to their cost per vehicle produced needs to drop. What is their largest component? Labour or materials - probably labour. What do they have more control over ? labour, if they are already getting materials near cost. Since they own a lot of their component manufacturers, then they are probably getting materails close to cost.

Oh and how you classify these expenses isn't an economics issue, it's an accounting issue. Why is CAW trotting out an economist to comment on this? It's like bringing out their economist to comment on contract law. He's not qualified to comment on this ( unless of course you work for CAW and you're not regulated by a professional organization).

Looks like CAW will cut off its nose to spite its face.

I predict the union will capitulate. They are posturing now for the cameras. When it comes down to crunch time they will agree.

If they do not many Chrysler employees will begin working for Honda and Toyota. And Chrysler will fade into obscurity. The union dues with it. That will look good on the union.

Pavolo wrote:Considering we do not have very many jobs left for these workers skills , I sure would think twice about the union mouthpeice telling me to say no.

Exactly.

Not to mention These workers have been overpaid for decades. They should upgrade their skills or take a pay cut. If that upsets them, they can always take orders at Tim Hortons.

grumpy old man wrote:Cost of living is one very small part, but many of the communities these plants are in would not be particularly more expensive than Winnipeg. Windsor and Oshawa for example...

I heard homes in Windsor are selling for a fraction of what they were once worth.

Majority of Canadians support auto sector bail out..
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090423/national/poll_auto_bailout

waaaaa???!?!!!?