awww... look whos trying to buy the election

Here's a question: Keirstead say's it is impossible to rent an apartment for under $500 for a bachelor. Is someone who cannot afford their own accommodations entitled to an apartment?

I know students and some seniors who rent rooms because that is all they can afford. Is it too much to expect a welfare recipient to do the same?

With a rent allowance of $285, a room is all they can afford, if they can find a decent one.

Let's assume that 20,000-30,000 of those welfare peeps are employable.....the real question is wether or not there are that many unfilled, unskilled labour positions available to them? How do you get them off welfare if the jobs may not exist to begin with? A simple labour market analysis should be enough to tell wether or not there is a huge amount of employment available that goes unfilled. If that is the case, then yes an incease in welfare payments makes no sense.

On the flip side of the coin, if the majority of positions are being filled by job seekers who are either better qualified or simply have better means to seek employment (access to transportation, communication, dressing appropriately for interviews etc) and there are just not enough postions left over for everyone then what do we do with the "excess"? Do we as a society expect them to all just dissapear?

While many of the people on welfare may be generational recipients, what do we do with the ones who are not and may be seeking something better but have the deck stacked against them? I couldn't imagine trying to find meaningfull employment while living in a crackhouse (that's all $285/month would get you) and only having $175/month allotted for food. A bus pass is $74/month, basic telephone costs at least $30/month. Those are 2 NECESSITIES for finding employment. So you'd be left with what $100/month for food and all other needs (basic hygiene etc.)?

I think changes are needed that both encourage and enable individuals that want to better themsleves to be able to. Some reforms that would see funds alotted to include basic needs such as bus passes, telephone and even personal hygiene items for those who can show they are actively seeking employement would be a huge inmprovement and may actually help get many off the system. No one wants to admit it, but given the choice most employers will hire the person who comes in looking clean cut and well dressed who is easy to contact over someone who is shabbily or underdressed and needs to be contacted at their sister's house who will pass on a message for them. At one point I was actively hiring employees at a former employer and it was obvious which applicants were likely on welfare simply from lack of communications options with them. How many employers are willing to give them the chances, when it's just easier to hire someone else?

There are hundreds of jobs available in Winnipeg right now. Granted many people on welfare won't qualify but there are ton's of unskilled jobs available.

I think we have a culture of multi-generational welfare recipients. We need a way to wean them off this entitlement. I guess the answer is exactly the same as those unemployable convicts.

Give them the training that will get them in entry level jobs. A hand up. Give them the necessary tools that will lead to a job. Bus passes. Hygiene products. A phone. A basic work ensemble (whatever that means...).

These are not terribly expensive yet it seems to be a huge hurdle.

I did a quick 10 second search and found 685 matches for "rooms for rent winnipeg" on Kijiji. I'm willing to bet they are not crack houses.

However, $285 won't yield much.

Those new bus fare collections things are going to come in handy to track these welfare recipients eh? No more tickets (which they sell) or bus passes (which they sell). An ID card with their picture on it that they swipe to get a free ride on the bus.

The people that truly need a bus pass won't be selling it. Those that do sell it cut them off welfare.

A bus pass that can't be sold is a great idea. Perhaps that card could be a cash card as well (interac)? No more welfare cheques? No more selling the baby's food for crack?

"The people that truly need a bus pass won't be selling it."

And how do we know? We dont.. that simple.

And GOM.. the "loaded debit cards" present a similar problem. They just go buy the food and sell it at a discount and then go and spend the money they got.


Do they all do this? i certainly hope not, but lots do.

only solution is to have government funded feeding centres all over the place.

We have those now Dean....the Sally Ann, Agape and Saloam etc.

People collecting welfare should have to account bi-weekly for their job-seeking efforts. That's how EI used to be run and even with that - you only collected for 6 months. How long are we supposed to pretend that people/families can't/don't collect assistance their entire lives and that it becomes a lifestyle?

grumpyrom wrote:Let's assume that 20,000-30,000 of those welfare peeps are employable.....the real question is wether or not there are that many unfilled, unskilled labour positions available to them? How do you get them off welfare if the jobs may not exist to begin with? A simple labour market analysis should be enough to tell wether or not there is a huge amount of employment available that goes unfilled. If that is the case, then yes an incease in welfare payments makes no sense.

On the flip side of the coin, if the majority of positions are being filled by job seekers who are either better qualified or simply have better means to seek employment (access to transportation, communication, dressing appropriately for interviews etc) and there are just not enough postions left over for everyone then what do we do with the "excess"? Do we as a society expect them to all just dissapear?

While many of the people on welfare may be generational recipients, what do we do with the ones who are not and may be seeking something better but have the deck stacked against them? I couldn't imagine trying to find meaningfull employment while living in a crackhouse (that's all $285/month would get you) and only having $175/month allotted for food. A bus pass is $74/month, basic telephone costs at least $30/month. Those are 2 NECESSITIES for finding employment. So you'd be left with what $100/month for food and all other needs (basic hygiene etc.)?

I think changes are needed that both encourage and enable individuals that want to better themsleves to be able to. Some reforms that would see funds alotted to include basic needs such as bus passes, telephone and even personal hygiene items for those who can show they are actively seeking employement would be a huge inmprovement and may actually help get many off the system. No one wants to admit it, but given the choice most employers will hire the person who comes in looking clean cut and well dressed who is easy to contact over someone who is shabbily or underdressed and needs to be contacted at their sister's house who will pass on a message for them. At one point I was actively hiring employees at a former employer and it was obvious which applicants were likely on welfare simply from lack of communications options with them. How many employers are willing to give them the chances, when it's just easier to hire someone else?

Make welfare either for those in training or make it workfare for those who aren't in training. Pick up trash, etc.

JTF wrote:With a rent allowance of $285, a room is all they can afford, if they can find a decent one.

A room....

Does that also include a kitchen(ette), a bathroom, some storage space?

The time for excuses is over.

So they get $285 that's supposed to be allocated to rent, but I also wonder how much of it in reality goes to smokes and booze, and the landlord gets stiffed. I agree with DeanK's idea of an ID card - entitlement to support from the system should not be equated with liberty to allocate that support as one wishes.

I would also step it up a notch and say that those who are eligible for social support also should have a responsibility to be drug/tobacco/booze and pregancy free, and undergo regular tests and birth control dispensation to remain eligible.

What do you propose jimj_wpg is a proper living arrangement?

When a person is on welfare should one expect more than a room?

There are people out there that are NOT on welfare but live in a single room. Students for example. If it is good enough for them should it not also be good enough for welfare recipients?

grumpy old man wrote:When a person is on welfare should one expect more than a room?

A room to oneself is already pretty generous. Many students and many employed people also bunk together in one room. Nothing wrong with that. In many countries, one room is all there is for a large family, all of whom may be working hard to even afford that.

oddly enough our welfare "RULES" make it so that if on welfare the number of rooms is mandated per person and by sex type.

yet...if you work for your money, you cant even afford anything close to the rules on minimum wage

$285 per month would get you a room where?

I know someone in St james that just rented out a bedroom for $450 and a bigger bedroom for $500 per month, so what would you get, and where for $285?? Anyone know?

Renting one room wouldn't do much for a family or a single parent with kids. Abuses of the system suck, but it's pretty nasty to see how little compassion there can be for those who really do need that helping hand.

darkwind wrote:Renting one room wouldn't do much for a family or a single parent with kids.

A family would have mofre than one "income" and single parents also get considerbale additional benefits. Also, hence my call for pregnancy prevention for those who are not able to provide for a family.

Yeah, cause that is just what the province needs...........more welfare handouts.

I guess some people will never learn that throwing money at things isn't always the right thing to do.

rosencrentz wrote:$285 per month would get you a room where?

I know someone in St james that just rented out a bedroom for $450 and a bigger bedroom for $500 per month, so what would you get, and where for $285?? Anyone know?

Rooms in the North end and downtown.

I read an article yesterday that opened my eyes a little. The more welfare handed out , the greater the demand !

Wow! I have been saying that we don't give enough to the needy. This article said that if you give to the needy, more want it. That you are causing the demand to rise!