Whatever happen to synchronizing stop lights?

Wasn't this one of mayor Sam's election/re-election promises?



I didn't pay as much attention to this in the past, but I just just bought a new vehicle and have been watching the trip computer a bit more closely to see if I'm getting close to the advertised fuel economy. What I've noticed is the fact that synchronization SUCKS just about everywhere in town but especially downtown. My mileage figures are getting the crap kicked out of them from all the stop sign idling in this town.



Average's have been 11L/100km on an advertised 8.8L/100km. Average trip speed for the last tank.....a whopping 21kph. I'm not expecting to get advertised mileage on the button but 25% more because of idling is ridiculous. The few trips I've beeb able to avoid stop and go have all been closer to 9.0-9.2 which is very close to the advertsied consumption.



It got me wondering, how much extra fuel and money is being wasted in this city by the simple fact that our city planners never saw a stop sign they didn't like and can't even be bothered to try and time them correctly.

New cars always seem to suck gas until they are "broken in".

Stop signs are not likely going away any time soon. But no one uses side streets and residential streets as commuter routes.

Syncing traffic lights though is another matter. The city has to commit to this. Each and every NEW set of lights needs to have the proper technology built into the streets. I doubt they do this unless the lights will have a red light camera installed.

Toronto did a great job in setting up such protocols. For example, when lights are installed at an intersection with heavy traffic on one street and reduced cross traffic they only activate the lights when a car actually approaches the low volume intersection. We seem to have lights activating when there is no cross traffic.

As to syncing stretches like Kensaton between Academy and Taylor sammy claims this was done but I see no evidence that they operate as one might expect.

grumpyrom wrote:My mileage figures are getting the crap kicked out of them from all the stop sign idling in this town.

I don't follow new car technology much, but had the impression that many of the new models stop the engine when the car comes to a stop, and re-start when the accelerator is pressed again. Maybe this fuel-saving technlogy can also be retrofitted?

grumpy old man wrote:New cars always seem to suck gas until they are "broken in".

Stop signs are not likely going away any time soon. But no one uses side streets and residential streets as commuter routes.

Syncing traffic lights though is another matter. The city has to commit to this. Each and every NEW set of lights needs to have the proper technology built into the streets. I doubt they do this unless the lights will have a red light camera installed.

Toronto did a great job in setting up such protocols. For example, when lights are installed at an intersection with heavy traffic on one street and reduced cross traffic they only activate the lights when a car actually approaches the low volume intersection. We seem to have lights activating when there is no cross traffic.

As to syncing stretches like Kensaton between Academy and Taylor sammy claims this was done but I see no evidence that they operate as one might expect.

Sorry GOM, I was referring to both traffic lights and stop signs as the same thing sorry if I wasn't clear. Considering that I'm pretty much through the break-in period and that even during that period I was still close to the advertised mileage when I didn't have to stop every block for a red light it's obvious the mileage problem has more to do with all the stop/start than with it being a new car.



It's pretty clear to me that with an avergae speed indicated over 500km of 21kph that the problem is all the stopping in this town. Even during periods of light traffic it's impossible to go more than 2-3 blocks in the downtown core without encountering another red light, and yes I'm driving the posted speed limits so it's not like I'm beating the next light. That's a whole lot of idling time to drop the average speed down that low.



Seems to me like a lot of your suggestions would make a lot of sense. Like I said I never gave it much thought before, but after actually paying attention the last little while it really opened my eyes. My last truck averaged 20-22l/100km in the same conditions so I'm not complaining....just realising how much gas is wasted by poor city planning. Imagine how much extra fuel Transit and the trucking industry is blowing through by spending that much wasted time idling.

eViL tRoLl wrote:

grumpyrom wrote:My mileage figures are getting the crap kicked out of them from all the stop sign idling in this town.

I don't follow new car technology much, but had the impression that many of the new models stop the engine when the car comes to a stop, and re-start when the accelerator is pressed again. Maybe this fuel-saving technlogy can also be retrofitted?

It's primarily hybrid vehicles that have stop/start technology as well as a few European sub-compacts that we don't get over here. There's no current N.American gasoline models that offer this technology that I'm aware of. There may be something I'm missing but none of them come to mind off the top of my head. It would be a good idea in a city like Winnipeg with no freeways, all surface streets and constant idling at red lights. It would probably drop fuel consumption by at least 10-20% for most people.

I try as many hypermiling techniques as I can, primarily coasting and slow accelerations. And driving route 90 twice a day makes me public enemy number one. I get to 60 km and hour, and then basically have to start coasting because there's a red light ahead.

For the record, before you kill me, I rarely have to come to a complete stop on route 90, so I keep pace with idiots in big a$$ trucks with stickers of Calvin peeing on car logos who cram 'er to 70 and then do a hard brake at the upcoming intersection. We all get to the same location at the same time, for the most part!

Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding the synchronization of the city’s traffic signals along Route 90.

The traffic signals branch is currently in the 4^th year of a 5 year Traffic Signals Enhancement program which involves revised timing plans on a selection of major routes in Winnipeg. The program also includes the installation of a new communication network that connects our traffic controllers to a new Management System to allow us to monitor the intersections remotely and assist in updating future timing plans.

The routes that have already had their timing plans revised are:


Kenaston Blvd

Lagimodiere Blvd

Main St
St. Anne’s Rd
St. Mary’s Rd

Portage Ave

Bishop Grandin Blvd
McPhillips St
Pembina Hwy

For the remainder of the program, we will be revising the timing plans on Henderson Hwy, Grant Ave and the downtown area.


In regards to Route 90, the portion of that route that has been revised is on Kenaston Blvd, between Academy Rd and Scurfield Blvd.
Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.
Thank you,

John Fenske

Supervisor of Traffic Signals Systems

City of Winnipeg Traffic Signals

821 Elgin Ave Winnipeg, MB R3E 3R1

(204) 986-4199



I think revising times simply means they have se-set the lights, but does not mean that they stay timed to keep the traffic flowing. I continually get red lights along the routes that have been re-set.

That is why I sent in my inquiry.

I don't believe that any money has been spent to get a new system that is tied together with seeing eyes to keep traffic moving along at a rate and not spending wasteful time being stuck at red lights!

My car, a smaller CUV with a four cylinder, took FOREVER to get beyond the initial poor low mileage problem. It gets much better mileage now then it did 6 months in.

That said, stop and go traffic is the bane of my existence. This city has ignore good traffic management techniques for decades. Not sure why this is such a multi-generational problem.

It needs to get fixed. Start by hiring traffic planners with a little common sense and include proper budgeting...

I love the "timing plans revised" statement, because the revision probably worked for 5 days, or never worked at all.

The City thinks the roadways are timed , but haven't got the money to check it out and fix it! Stops and starts mean nothing, but they will spend $135,000,000 for rapid transit for 3 miles. For $5 million everyone gets "there" 10 minutes early when the lights are timed prperly!

I liked the article in the freep poking fun at how they can barely keep the traffic light ON, much less synched!!

There appears to be a mindset with the traffic guys that wants everyone to be driving under 25 kpm or completely stopped.



These guys have got to retire from the city.



Imo, one of the best things that happened was these circles that were installed.....not having to stop every block saves a hellava lot of gas....collectively....millions of dollars.

I MIGHT agree with that thought were those circles a) installed every block; and 2) replacing four way stop signs every block.

I can say with complete certainty on Grosvenor at least, that that is not the case. They installed circles where previously only two-way stop signs previously existed on what four intersections and on four-way on two (ish).

Remember the days in Fort Rouge where they pretty much had NO stop signs on all side streets? Those days you had to drive much more cautiously and slow down as you approached every single intersection to yield the right of way.

I believe those scary (for women) circles were rushed into existence, only because there was Harper stimulus money available that had to be spent within a certain time frame, and these plans were easy to get built.

That said, I don't think there was any problem with Grosvenor traffic having the right-of-way, and if a study could be done, it would be found that those circles are slowing down traffic!

Ya those circles are definitely slowing traffic. Way too many peeps stil confused by them and stopping instead of yielding, causing confusion amongst the other drivers approaching and slowing them down as well. They are the worst thing ever along Warsaw as all the people looking for Corydon strip parking are completely oblivious to how they work.



Gotta say I agree with JTF, seems like the traffic planners have one goal in mind....stop everyone whereever possible. GOM, I hope your right on the small CUV getting better mileage eventually. Switched to a compact CUV myself from a "real" SUV and so far loving it, hope the mileage only continues to get better. My heart really wanted a Wrangler Unlimited but my brain kept telling me I only leave the road <5% of the time and gas is only going up despite the fact that they are the ultimate fun machine. If you've never owned a TJ or YJ you wouldn't understand. They are the ultimate fun machine summer or winter, but alas they also SUCK for mileage in the city which 90% of my driving is lol.

I read an article somewhere (can't remember where...but it was about 7 years ago) shortly after I moved here, that the lights on Portage were being "unsyncronized" to reduce the amount of idiots speeding down Portage.

I've also been told that "drag-racing" down Portage was quite common.

From the article, it indicated that the light timing would be adjusted so someone doing the speed limit should be able to connect to 3 or 4 lights, and then have to stop.

It's all part of the hairbrianed idea (my take) to "calm" or slow traffic in order to stop the mayhem on our roads today and to reduce the thousands of deaths every day in Winnipeg alone as a result of people driving as fast as 60 or 70 kph. They're thinking of our children ...who are playing in our streets.

I'm starting to sound like Rosie......

OMG!

I read the title of this post and laughed my a$$ off!!

Synchronized traffic lights! In Winnipeg! That's hilarious!

The douchebags at the city have no idea how to properly synchronize a traffic light. Case in point, Pembina Hwy NB at Point Road. The NB Pembina light turns green and you're lucky to get two cars through. Why? Because some fricker with the city decided to screw with the timing of the lights at Pembina/Jubilee or Stafford/Pembina. So instead of improving NB traffic flow on Pembina, the have made it worse.

Synchronized traffic lights in Winnipeg - HA!

I reckon the mayor has been told that they've started syncronizing them.



They've told him they have the green lights done and are now working on the red ones.



He believed them.

JTF- thanks for the complement! lol

I have been watching the city work on Portage and along Henderson lately.

They are still replacing all of the controllers along Henderson and just finished the downtown stretch of Portage. They are basically replacing 40+ year old wiring a relays in many cases. Some lamp standards are being replaced as well.

I have noticed that Henderson (construction aside) has been really good lately. I can often get from Chief Peguis to Hespeler without stopping.

St Norberter wrote:OMG!

I read the title of this post and laughed my a$$ off!!

Synchronized traffic lights! In Winnipeg! That's hilarious!

The douchebags at the city have no idea how to properly synchronize a traffic light. Case in point, Pembina Hwy NB at Point Road. The NB Pembina light turns green and you're lucky to get two cars through. Why? Because some fricker with the city decided to screw with the timing of the lights at Pembina/Jubilee or Stafford/Pembina. So instead of improving NB traffic flow on Pembina, the have made it worse.

Synchronized traffic lights in Winnipeg - HA!

Call up John Fenske and let him know.

It would probably an egghead at a computer 30 seconds to make the change.

sputnik wrote:I have been watching the city work on Portage and along Henderson lately.

They are still replacing all of the controllers along Henderson and just finished the downtown stretch of Portage. They are basically replacing 40+ year old wiring a relays in many cases. Some lamp standards are being replaced as well.

I have noticed that Henderson (construction aside) has been really good lately. I can often get from Chief Peguis to Hespeler without stopping.

That's because they know that everyone in this city wants to spend as little time in EK as possible!

Why doesn't everyone on the forum who drives, phone Mr. Fenske and ask him about timing lights being re-set, and report back?

Got a number?