Thoughts on my trip to Winnipeg from Alberta

First off, I would just like to thank the man upstairs for making it through blizzard-like conditions Saturday night. All I can say is thank God they finished twinning the Trans-Canada from Calgary to Winnipeg, because the left lane was completely snow-packed in most sections.

When you hit Manitoba, you tend to notice that the Trans-Canada Highway is rather beat up, and the shoulders are not paved like Saskatchewan and Alberta. It's about time we changed that.
Another thing that bothered me is those new Highway signs (mainly used from construction,delays,etc.) that look exactly like our license plates. I have 20/20 vision, and I had trouble reading them. What was so bad about white lettering, with a dark-blue background?


Finally, I would like to commend the City of Winnipeg for replacing those god-awful "One Great City" signs when you enter the city limits. The new signs are IMO, the best in Canada out of any large centre. I love them! "Heart of the Continent" sounds catchy too.

And they look nice too...

There has been much talk about the state of the trans-Canada from Winnipeg to the Saskatchewan border. The state of our roads in general is pretty bad. I don't know why we could afford to build the thousands of miles of roads we have but can't seem to maintain them and upgrade them.

If we simply plan to build a few miles a year over time our highways will be fine. But for some reason we wait until they get so bad we have no choice.

Build them correctly the first time as well. No cheap short cuts. This seems to be the modus operendi in Winnipeg and Manitoba. Take short cuts. Pay later.

Ah, the old post switcharoo. Almost got me there for a second.

grumpy old man wrote:And they look nice too...

There has been much talk about the state of the trans-Canada from Winnipeg to the Saskatchewan border. The state of our roads in general is pretty bad. I don't know why we could afford to build the thousands of miles of roads we have but can't seem to maintain them and upgrade them.

If we simply plan to build a few miles a year over time our highways will be fine. But for some reason we wait until they get so bad we have no choice.

Build them correctly the first time as well. No cheap short cuts. This seems to be the modus operendi in Winnipeg and Manitoba. Take short cuts. Pay later.

What about that (was it 4) billion dollar package to repair roads and bridges across the province?

Four billion dollars? Had not heard that. I hope they prioritize the expenditures correctly? What should the priorities be? Winnipeg to US? Trans Canada? Perimeter?

grumpy old man wrote:Four billion dollars? Had not heard that. I hope they prioritize the expenditures correctly? What should the priorities be? Winnipeg to US? Trans Canada? Perimeter?

You don't remember? There was that big-ass announcement by Doheader about pumping a billion, trillion, gazillion ( no really, it was like four billion worth) dollars into highways for the province. Highways 1, 2, 3, 6, 16, 12, 10, 59, 75 and the TPH are priorities for sure.

Pave the damn shoulders, and twin where twinning needs to be done. Oh yeah, interchanges would be nice along the THC, TPH and 75 for free flowing traffic.

It all comes down to building costs, our roadways use concrete slabs that are 8" thick. In Germany the Autobahn road slabs are in the neighbourhood of 24"-30" thick with special porous concrete on the edges to transport water down through the road way and into weeping tiles buried below that carries the water away from the road surface almost instantly. Less water on the road is safer and leads to less maintenance as there is very little freeze/thaw cycling going on at the surface.

We're never in our life times going to see roads built to those specifications here. It is far, far to expensive to implement without the political will to do so.

If ever there was a place in the world for 24" deep road slabs...

grumpyrom wrote:It all comes down to building costs, our roadways use concrete slabs that are 8" thick. In Germany the Autobahn road slabs are in the neighbourhood of 24"-30" thick with special porous concrete on the edges to transport water down through the road way and into weeping tiles buried below that carries the water away from the road surface almost instantly. Less water on the road is safer and leads to less maintenance as there is very little freeze/thaw cycling going on at the surface.

We're never in our life times going to see roads built to those specifications here. It is far, far to expensive to implement without the political will to do so.

Lets not foget how smal germany is compared to manitoba and how much more popukated it is compared to manitoba

True. Scale and density play a big part. But we don't have to build EVERY road to those standards. How about just the most important roadways? 75 South; TCH; Perimeter.

sounds like a good plan.. now lets also incorporate kick ass beer into this plan.

If we're talking kick ass beer, let's start by making the bottle the correct size. A proper bottle of beer is 1L, not 333ml. What we call a beer is actually 1/3rd of a beer. Maybe everything is bigger in Germany, not Texas.

Deank wrote:

grumpyrom wrote:It all comes down to building costs, our roadways use concrete slabs that are 8" thick. In Germany the Autobahn road slabs are in the neighbourhood of 24"-30" thick with special porous concrete on the edges to transport water down through the road way and into weeping tiles buried below that carries the water away from the road surface almost instantly. Less water on the road is safer and leads to less maintenance as there is very little freeze/thaw cycling going on at the surface.

We're never in our life times going to see roads built to those specifications here. It is far, far to expensive to implement without the political will to do so.

Lets not foget how smal germany is compared to manitoba and how much more popukated it is compared to manitoba

Very true Dean, one more reason we won't see it happening here any time soon.

grumpy old man wrote:Four billion dollars? Had not heard that. I hope they prioritize the expenditures correctly? What should the priorities be? Winnipeg to US? Trans Canada? Perimeter?

Trans-Canada should be the priority. Hwy #75 should be second.

24 inch probaly won't make any difference in our climate +30 to-35 not to much will go through that without buckeling or cracking throw in the good old Manitoba gumbo and walaa it is heaving .

grumpy old man wrote:And they look nice too...

There has been much talk about the state of the trans-Canada from Winnipeg to the Saskatchewan border. The state of our roads in general is pretty bad. I don't know why we could afford to build the thousands of miles of roads we have but can't seem to maintain them and upgrade them.

If we simply plan to build a few miles a year over time our highways will be fine. But for some reason we wait until they get so bad we have no choice.

Build them correctly the first time as well. No cheap short cuts. This seems to be the modus operendi in Winnipeg and Manitoba. Take short cuts. Pay later.

Like in ontario. Well from Dryden to the manitoba border anyways. They never stop working on it. As soon as they get to the manitoba border, they go back to Dryden and start again instead of leaving it till it has crumbled apart.

Pavolo wrote:24 inch probaly won't make any difference in our climate +30 to-35 not to much will go through that without buckeling or cracking throw in the good old Manitoba gumbo and walaa it is heaving .

Actually, it would make a huge difference once you factor in that the base under that slab is also 3 times thicker. Triple the mass for the road makes for a surface far less prone to heaving especially when you factor in that the bottom of the base course would then be at or below the frost line. Add in the improved drainage and you'd have a much more stable surface.

grumpyrom wrote:

Pavolo wrote:24 inch probaly won't make any difference in our climate +30 to-35 not to much will go through that without buckeling or cracking throw in the good old Manitoba gumbo and walaa it is heaving .

Actually, it would make a huge difference once you factor in that the base under that slab is also 3 times thicker. Triple the mass for the road makes for a surface far less prone to heaving especially when you factor in that the bottom of the base course would then be at or below the frost line. Add in the improved drainage and you'd have a much more stable surface.

No...it won't make a big difference. It will just increase the costs for maintenance and repair.

As long as water can get UNDER the roadway, it doesn't matter how thick you make the road...it might take a little bit more to crack...but once it does, the repair cost would be exponentially higher.

The best hope, is to find a new material to make the roads. Something which will handle the extreme temperatures, and have more "give" without the damage.

I know sections of the highways in Manitoba have been "targeted" for testing these materials. They are on a trial program with monitoring of the wear in the areas, and the reaction to the extreme temperatures.

You'd think by now the pointy foreheads in that business would have found a solution for this. Do note though that ND, Minnesota, Saskatchewan, Ontario, etc. experience similar weather extremes...

AGEsAces wrote:

grumpyrom wrote:

Pavolo wrote:24 inch probaly won't make any difference in our climate +30 to-35 not to much will go through that without buckeling or cracking throw in the good old Manitoba gumbo and walaa it is heaving .

Actually, it would make a huge difference once you factor in that the base under that slab is also 3 times thicker. Triple the mass for the road makes for a surface far less prone to heaving especially when you factor in that the bottom of the base course would then be at or below the frost line. Add in the improved drainage and you'd have a much more stable surface.

No...it won't make a big difference. It will just increase the costs for maintenance and repair.

As long as water can get UNDER the roadway, it doesn't matter how thick you make the road...it might take a little bit more to crack...but once it does, the repair cost would be exponentially higher.

The best hope, is to find a new material to make the roads. Something which will handle the extreme temperatures, and have more "give" without the damage.

I know sections of the highways in Manitoba have been "targeted" for testing these materials. They are on a trial program with monitoring of the wear in the areas, and the reaction to the extreme temperatures.

In parts of canada they have used old tires. It seems to improve traction and is able to move with the groud instead of crumbling right away and it puts old tires to use instead of laying in landfills. It seems to be worth a try IMO.

Yeah, in California they have been using old computers & monitors.

I think they are focusing on a "recycling" format...but I know the old tires & computer version of roadway had been much more expensive initially...thus cost-prohibitive from using "mainstream".

why would old tires version cost more?

Deank wrote:why would old tires version cost more?

Unions )

Actually, production.

You can't just stick an old tire down and drive on it. It has to be processed, which means melting. It also has to be mixed with other ingredients (like a glue), which is expensive as well. And then you're looking at volume.

While old tires might seem abundant and "free" to you individually...we're talking tens of thousands of tires to do just a few kilometers of roadway.

Concrete and asphalt are still the "standard" as well, and since demand is higher for those, and currently supply is meeting demand...the costs are lower.

This will change, as cement as doubled in price in the last year, and is expected to double again in the next 1-2 years.

the last project I reviewed simply had the shredded tires added right tinot the asphalt mix.
Seemed to work just fine. ( cause the asphalt is hot and melt the tire powder enough to bond. )

AGEsAces wrote:Yeah, in California they have been using old computers & monitors.

I understand they have to continually reboot the roads.