US economy

America’s reality: doom & gloom

"Begin here: Within 10 years, the federal debt could reach 90% of GDP. No, wait, even that is “too optimistic” given low rates of economic growth, they say. The latest report from the International Monetary Fund projects that the federal debt could equal GDP by 2015."

Still think government should be all things to all people and that we should continue to spend unnecessarily? I bet the Americans wish they had spent less.

What I dont understand. So.. all these countries are going into debt passed their eyeballs. Who are we borrowing all the money from?

like seriously. USA alone is like 14 trillionish now. Never mind all the other countries.

so what.. another 10-30 trillion world wide? Its all imaginary money, based on nothing. So what happens if everyone just said. All debt is canceled. who suffers?

China and Saudi Arabia owe a huge, huge portion of the US debt.

and? if the imaginary money disappeared? then what?

If the money disappeared, all at once? Who knows.
Actually, the banks would stop loaning, I think and currency would become worthless.

If there's no real consequence, then the NDP are geniuses and we should spend, spend, spend like drunken NDP. Build more things that we don't need. Make university free.

I've wondered about that Dean since I was in High School and learning about it in US History class.

Trini has it close though....

Countries around the world owe each other money for various reasons...those "debts" are collateral for a country to borrow more money from banks or other countries to do certain things.

I had once written a report for US History that covered the US budget.
I had put a plan together in there of finding out who owes the US, and who the US owes.

Basically...do some simple math and start canceling out debt.

Japan owes US - $1B
China owes US - $1B
US owes Russia - $1B
Russia owes China $1B

so say "Japan paid US, US paid Russia, Russia paid China, China paid US"...and everyone is even.

But then that outstanding balance of a potential income is no longer an asset to bargain with for future borrowing.

Personally, I see most the government spending as a glorified Ponzi scheme...and only "legal" because the government is doing it.

Who needs to borrow money for anything in a world 100% owned by the governments?


Global Communism will reign supreme!

...and yet these people continue to swear that taxation is the biggest evil ever. Increase income tax, initiate a GST like federal tax on all goods and services, and cut down on the perverse military spending. Oh wait, no. That would infringe on personal rights, freedoms and liberties! Let's just keep spending...

Didn't Obama just extend the Bush tax cuts? The government has record debt and they lower taxes. That country is going to suffer a major fall from grace in our life time, hopefully they don't drag us down with them.

WE wont have a choice Bartron.

The refugees streaming across our "worlds longest unprotected border" will bankrupt us, even if no other part of their collapse does. We need to build a wall and build it now.

whew...made it across just in time

why does everyone think that tax cuts means the country will go bankrupt?

it does just the opposite.
It allows the public to keep their money, or spend it in other ways, thus boosting the economy...and generating other tax revenues elsewhere anyway.

And in MOST cases...it means most people will spend it over saving it...because they'll see it as "new found" money to spend.

The tax cuts might not be the cause of collapse, but the monumental debt and record spending might have something to do with it.

AGEsAces wrote:
And in MOST cases...it means most people will spend it over saving it...because they'll see it as "new found" money to spend.

not really. The tax cuts will mean very very little to the most common little guy. Any extra spending will have little impact on the country because it is hardly any money. The higher paid people who will notice a significant difference WILL actually put the difference into savings because they can see that they will need it down the road.

Plus, the US tax cuts are targeting businesses more than individuals...

so the money can be invested in improving businesses and it will get spent.

even those who do save the money will end up paying the taxes on it eventually...but it will get put back into the economy.

certainly better than the government taking it and throwing it after bad decisions.

not if those bad decisions are paying off the MASSIVE debt

What debt?
They already buy the cheapest pulp lumber in the world...
If they need money, they go out and print more and more and more and more....

nothing is paying off the massive debt

they can't even cover the interest payments with simple taxes or tax increases...especially in an economy where nobody is making money to pay taxes with.

and the tax burden crisis has been coming for quite some time...it was building long before i moved up here...it was building back when Clinton was in office and started introducing all kinds of new things to tax...and taking more and more money away from people EARNING money, and giving it to freeloaders who WON'T work.

the biggest drain on the US economy is the social welfare system.
people can cry all they want about the war costing $10B...but that's a flat number...spread out over say 10 years. The welfare system costs the US more than that PER YEAR, by 6x the amount PER YEAR!!!

Straight from the US Social Security website:
In 2008, over 50 million Americans received nearly $614 billion in Social Security benefits.
The total cost of all federal assistance programs -- including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and various welfare programs -- accounts for nearly one-half of all money spent by the federal government.

What they HAVE to do is find ways of getting people to work...and to STAY working...and the only way to do that is to encourage businesses to hire workers...and to be able to afford workers...and to be able to afford to pay them well enough that they can get off the welfare system!

Electrician wrote:What debt?
They already buy the cheapest pulp lumber in the world...
If they need money, they go out and print more and more and more and more....

That's just ridiculous...money isn't printed on paper anyway.

U.S. Currency


Currency in the U.S. is printed by Bureau of Engraving and Printing on paper that is 75 percent cotton and 25 percent linen, according to the U.S. Treasury Department.Read more: What kind of paper is used to make currency? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1972187#ixzz17Ykg7Sqm

"the biggest drain on the US economy is the social welfare system.
people can cry all they want about the war costing $10B...but that's a flat number...spread out over say 10 years"

you are missing some zeros there.

Deank wrote:"the biggest drain on the US economy is the social welfare system.
people can cry all they want about the war costing $10B...but that's a flat number...spread out over say 10 years"

you are missing some zeros there.

ok...$1T

http://costofwar.com/

But that's still less than the drain of the welfare system...by a SIGNIFICANT margin.

And the sad thing is...they could've taken just 1/2 the people on welfare and sent them to war...and the war could've ended quicker, the welfare system would've received a reprieve, and the entire country could have saved BILLIONS of dollars over the past 10 years.

heh.. like I said.. a few Zeros

but those zeros really mean nothing

it's a flat cost...not perpetual.

it WILL end eventually...or reduce

Whoever made that counting site doesn't actually have a COST...they just have a running number which runs continuously...in reality...there may be higher or lower costs each day.

But welfare will be FOREVER...and it will ONLY increase unless they can get people working...and it will ONLY get worse unless they do something about the freeloaders who refuse to work.

why not just kill 20-30% of the freeloaders, grind their bodies up and make soup for the remaining ones?

Deank wrote:why not just kill 20-30% of the freeloaders, grind their bodies up and make soup for the remaining ones?

if only that were allowed.

there's no easy answer...

if you cut off the welfare train, then most of those freeloaders STILL won't work...they'll become criminals and start robbing from those who do work (at least then there's a chance for the working people to fight back).

but nobody wants to see starving homeless people...and so the welfare program will never actually cut off anyone

but unfortunately...that's what really needs to happen.

even private social assistance recognizes this.
places that offer free food, beds, etc. to help others, insist that if someone is able to, they contribute to their well being...by sweeping, cleaning, cooking, etc.

the welfare system should be changed to require the same...AS LONG AS the system is prepared to cut people off if they don't meet the requirements set forth.

AGEsAces wrote:
the biggest drain on the US economy is the social welfare system.
people can cry all they want about the war costing $10B...but that's a flat number...spread out over say 10 years. The welfare system costs the US more than that PER YEAR, by 6x the amount PER YEAR!!!

Even if these numbers were correct, those "services" are not really comparable. Welfare gets returned to the economy almost immediately because the poor spend it on rent and food and other stuff. War expenses on the other hand get exported to other countries such as Irak or Afghanistan and then literally get blown up. The cost of the destroyed properties and lives are not even included in that accounting, and neither is cost of re-building all that stuff which is also largely paid by the US.