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The Canadian Economy

+9
Bartron
Electrician
EdWin
grumpy old man
rosencrentz
IG Guy
FlyingRat
cherenkov
Deank
13 posters

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1The Canadian Economy Empty The Canadian Economy Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:11 pm

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Anonymous
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Canada Sees Faster Recovery Than in Past Recessions

By Greg Quinn
Jan. 22 (Bloomberg) -- The Bank of Canada said the economy this quarter will plunge instead of stalling, while anticipating a “faster” recovery than in earlier recessions as access to credit and exports rebound.
The central bank slashed its economic growth forecast for the first quarter, saying output will shrink at a 4.8 percent annualized pace after predicting in October that it would be unchanged. Gross domestic product will shrink at a 1 percent pace in the second quarter before expanding through 2010.
“The projected return to balance of the Canadian economy is faster than either of the recoveries following the 1981-82 and 1990-92 recessions,” the Ottawa-based central bank said today in an update to its October Monetary Policy Report. “Canadian credit conditions remain better than those in other major countries” and “exports are also expected to recover next year,” the bank said.
Governor Mark Carney two days ago cut borrowing costs by half a point to 1 percent, the lowest since the central bank was founded in 1934, and said he would “carefully” assess how much more stimulus may be needed. The world’s eighth-largest economy is shrinking because of slower foreign orders for goods such as cars and commodities such as crude oil, combined with the global credit crisis which has made banks reluctant to lend.
Currency Falls
The Canadian dollar weakened 0.7 percent to C$1.2637 per U.S. dollar at 11:53 a.m. in Toronto, from C$1.2551 yesterday.
The economy will contract 1.2 percent this year, marking Canada’s first recession since 1992, and then grow 3.8 percent in 2010, the central bank said. That’s almost double the 2 percent expansion predicted by economists in a Bloomberg News survey.
“We would love the Bank of Canada’s growth projections to turn out correctly, and maybe they will, but fear they are too optimistic on 2010,” Derek Holt, an economist with Scotia Capital Inc., wrote today in a note to clients. The bank may be “erring on the side of a relatively sanguine view of Canadian credit markets,” he said.
Exports will shave 2.6 percentage points off of economic growth this year, then add 2.1 percentage points in 2010, aided by a weaker currency and a rebound in U.S. demand, the bank said.
Even amid the financial crisis that has crippled access to credit in the world’s biggest economies, lending to businesses in Canada “grew at a solid pace” through November and household credit “has slowed only moderately,” the central bank said. The cost of borrowing for commercial lenders has fallen by 1 percentage point since October, the bank said, citing reductions in its own benchmark interest rate.
Gaining ‘Traction’
Also, actions taken by Canada and other countries to shore up credit markets and economies “are starting to gain traction,” the central bank said.
The report repeated that the Bank of Canada will assess “to what extent further monetary stimulus will be required” to meet its chief goal of keeping inflation at 2 percent.
Inflation will decline by 0.6 percent in the second quarter and 1 percent in the third and won’t return to the bank’s target until the first half of 2011, the bank said.
Consumer prices haven’t dropped for two or more consecutive quarters since 1953, according to Statistics Canada.
The Bank of Canada didn’t refer to its projection as a bout of deflation, saying risks to its inflation forecast are “roughly balanced.”
Further Tools
Deflation can freeze spending by business and consumers if they hold off on purchases in anticipation of ever-lower prices. Reversing deflation can be harder than inflation because central banks can only cut interest rates so low to encourage demand.
There was also no reference in the report to whether the central bank may eventually use policy tools other than interest-rate cuts to boost credit markets in Canada.
Carney, 43, said after his Oct. 23 forecast paper that Canada doesn’t need to consider buying direct stakes in banks as in the U.S. and some European countries, where governments are trying to catch up to Canadian lenders’ level of capitalization. In December, he said after a speech that it was “premature” to discuss such moves.
Still, Bank of Canada officials and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty have said the country’s banks, rated the soundest last year by the World Economic Forum, have scope to expand lending.
The next rate decision is scheduled for March 3.
The 1 percent policy rate that the Bank of Canada set two days ago is lower than a previous record of 1.12 percent in 1958 when the rate was based on treasury-bill yields.
To contact the reporter on this story: Greg Quinn in Ottawa at gquinn1@bloomberg.net. Last Updated: January 22, 2009 11:57 EST

---

This is good news for Canada. Hopefully the economy rebounds late 2009 or early 2010.

2The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:27 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Or is someone just selling us a bill of goods seems just as many say nay , sure as hell hope they are right and we do recover somewhat.

3The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:25 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

hoyl carp!

The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives seems to figure that Harpers announced 2 year $64 Billion defecit is too small... want him to almost double it

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Tories-spending-too-little-on-stimulus-think-tank.html

and then there is this little gem

"Broad-based tax cuts are a poor source of job-creating stimulus compared to government spending," said David Macdonald, one the policy centre's co-ordinators.
"Tax measures should be targeted at low-income Canadians who are more likely to spend the money locally.""

right.... only give low income Canadians a break.. that seems totally fair.

4The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:37 pm

cherenkov

cherenkov
contributor plus
contributor plus

CCPA gets far too much press, considering they are a bunch of hacks with no real experience. Go through their web site and compare their credentials to those of the Fraser Institute. They have a chief economist with no PhD, private sector experience, or peer-reviewed studies. I called him on it once, and he responded "you don't need a PhD to do math".

http://anybody-want-a-peanut.blogspot.com/

5The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:41 pm

FlyingRat

FlyingRat
moderator
moderator

Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives - sounds like a bunch of contrarians to me.... alternatives for the sake of being the opposite of the status quo.

6The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:47 pm

IG Guy

IG Guy
contributor plus
contributor plus

i haven't really felt any effects of a recession. i feel more comfortable spending now then i have in along time. i plan on doing more traveling this year then years past and feel more optimstic about making large purchases such as a car this year.i think that if you save for times like this, then your really dont have to change your life style to much at these times.

7The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:47 pm

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

There could be money sent to all people on social assisstance, increase the U.I benefit to 100% and extend the weeks of coverage.
All those receiving the above assisstance will spend every cent to survive!
I bet you the mean spirited Conservatives, under Harper won't do any of that, but will copy what the Liberals used to do, that is send money to their cronies for a comprehensive study of global warming, and study the advantages of wasting all of Alberta's water supply to keep the Tar Sands ruining the whole Province of Alberta's resources.

http://www.elansofas.com

8The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:25 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

I think the Conservatives should also advertise in Quebec to promote Canada. They could hire Chretien as the advertising director as he has ton's of experience.

9The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:39 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

cherenkov wrote:CCPA gets far too much press, considering they are a bunch of hacks with no real experience. Go through their web site and compare their credentials to those of the Fraser Institute. They have a chief economist with no PhD, private sector experience, or peer-reviewed studies. I called him on it once, and he responded "you don't need a PhD to do math".
Heh..are you thinking Marc Lee leans a bit to the left?

10The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:29 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

more good news from the National Post:

Canada economy to recover in second half: economists


The Canadian Economy Flames%20Socks


Ka Yan Ng, Reuters Published: Wednesday, January 21, 2009

The Canadian economy should emerge from recession during the second half of the year as stimulus measures take effect, setting the stage for interest rate hikes in a year, a Reuters poll showed on Wednesday.





The quarterly economic survey of 20 economists, conducted in the days before the Bank of Canada made an expected rate cut of a half-percentage point to a 50-year low of 1.0% on Tuesday, found the economy will contract by an annualised 1.1% this year.
That is in stark comparison with forecasts for growth of 1.1% in a poll three months ago and point to even lower rates at the central bank's next policy meeting in March.
Much has changed since then, when economists were still largely convinced the Canadian economy would narrowly miss recession, defined as at least two consecutive quarters of contraction in gross domestic product (GDP).
All the economists surveyed said the economy would contract in the first quarter of this year, but a small number expect growth as early as the second quarter. The median forecast showed growth of 0.9% as soon as July-September.
Growth should then pick up again in the fourth quarter to an annualised 2.0% and the momentum will likely carry into 2010 when it will reach 2.0% for the year as a whole, according to the poll.
"Canada should be out of recession in Q3/09, but only modest recovery is expected in 2010. Patience will be a good ally," said Sebastien Lavoie, an economist at Laurentian Bank Securities in Montreal.
A separate poll of twelve Toronto securities dealers found eight looking for another interest rate cut at the Bank of Canada's March meeting, with six looking for a half-point cut to 0.50%.
Economists said broad fiscal and budgetary stimulus plans would put the economy back on the growth track.
The federal government is expected to unveil more one- to two-year plans in its budget next Tuesday. Stimulus packages and loosening credit around the world should also help the global economy recover from recession in the second half of the year.
"The Canadian economy should begin to grow again as government stimulus takes hold, commodity prices rise again, and as the rest of the world emerges from the recession," said Millan Mulraine, economics strategist at TD Securities.
RATES SEEN RISING IN 2010
Economists expect rates to fall to 0.75% in the first quarter and then stay on hold until next year, the survey showed.
Core inflation, which excludes volatile items such as gasoline and is the Bank of Canada's preferred gauge of underlying price trends, is forecast at a 1.6% yearly rate at the end of 2009 and 1.7% at the end of 2010.
Housing starts are expected to average 170,000 units in 2009, slipping from the 212,366 units recorded in 2008, well off the record 228,343 units in 2007. New home construction is seen averaging 171,000 units next year, the survey showed.
Canada's unemployment rate is expected to jump to 7.5% this year, according to median forecasts, steadily rising from the current 6.6% recorded in December. It is expected to edge up to 7.8% in 2010.

©️ Thompson Reuters 2009

11The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:37 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Should the goverment take a pay cut and the civil service a pay freeze like the us .

12The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:51 pm

EdWin

EdWin
major-contributor
major-contributor

Um, since when do the Calgary Flames represent the Canadian economy? Rolling Eyes

13The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:20 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

EdWin wrote:Um, since when do the Calgary Flames represent the Canadian economy? Rolling Eyes

sorry I couldn't find any relevant image to go along with the article, but since the Flames are on a roll, I may as well post it.

14The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:27 am

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Pavolo wrote:Should the goverment take a pay cut and the civil service a pay freeze like the us .
pay freeze.. perhaps.... pay cut.. definately not.

15The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:39 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Why not are we not sure most of them make too much anyway, and act like children most of the time .

16The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:57 am

Electrician

Electrician
general-contributor
general-contributor

Make them work more.

http://www.new.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1416203996

17The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:17 am

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

-38 with wind chill- That will kill the economic rebound for Winnipeg, as all people trying to go out to the store and help the economy will freeze to death, or get really depressed!

http://www.elansofas.com

18The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:32 am

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

two reasons
1 It would be the start of deflation of salaries across Canada for everyone's jobs. Thats something we dont want
2 They spend that money that they make....kinda helps to have people spending money in a recession

19The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:22 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Yea but most at the top get to much any way who is really worth a mill a year comeonnnn , and thats the low end .

20The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:28 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Some times it seems that the market is really a hodge podge of corrupt deals also , course the goverment regulates it too , scary. Laughing

21The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:36 am

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Who makes a million a year in civil service? Name names. Plus what percentage of civil servants make a million annually?

That said then there is the debate over worth. That is so subjective but I do not begrudge most peeps their salaries. Especially the civil service. We need to pay competitive salaries to ensure we attract good candidates to fill some of those jobs.

We are sure good at bitching over how incompetent some bureaucrats are. Let's at least make sure we pay well and keep the best candidates.

22The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:58 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Not sure of these salaries are public but the head of the CBC and the head of the Mint , what about the Bank of Canada . Hell if the head of Rona makes it sure these people do too or very close to it . Mill is not that much any more grumpy get with it . You maybe right in the civil service but Crowns and I can't think of them all for now .

23The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:29 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Get with what?

You ask who is worth a million a year. And when challenged your response is "get with it"?

The discussion was civil service salaries.

Never mind Pavolo. I just don't have any more patience for this crap.

24The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:41 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

more good news:
Canada's central bank predicts short recession

The Associated Press
Friday, January 23, 2009

TORONTO: The head of Canada's central bank said Thursday the country is in a deep downturn, but he predicts it will be shorter than previous recessions.
Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney said interest rate cuts, a government stimulus package and a weak Canadian dollar could lead to a shorter downturn than recessions in 1981-82 and 1990-92.

The bank is predicting three consecutive quarters of contraction for Canadian economic activity, including a 2.3 percent drop in GDP in the fourth quarter of 2008 and a dramatic 4.8 percent GDP drop in the current quarter.
Carney predicts a 1 percent drop in the second quarter followed by 2 percent growth in the third and 3.5 percent growth in the fourth.


"We expect that this recession won't be as long as former recessions," Carney said.
Carney said the extraordinary easing up of monetary policy will help Canada recover. The Bank of Canada began cutting interest rate as the U.S. economy slowed in late 2007, but Carney only declared Canada in recession this week.
High commodity prices fueled Canada's resource-rich economy in the first half of last year, but the subsequent broad commodity decline has only slowed Canada's economy in recent months.

The Bank of Canada cut its trendsetting interest rate by one-half point to 1 percent on Tuesday, the lowest in history. Canada's central bank has cut 3.5 percentage points off the overnight rate since it began the current easing policy 13 months ago in an effort to stimulate the economy.
"We are entering this recession with effectively zero real interest rates," Carney said. "We normally enter with four or five percent real interest rates coming in. We've been cutting rates for some time, even though there is a lag on monetary policy that impact will start to be felt."

Carney also said he expects Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government to announce a substantial stimulus package on Tuesday. Opposition parties have vowed to topple Harper's government if the doesn't a significant plan.
Harper has said it will be substantial. An aide to the prime minister said Thursday the government will likely run a $64-billion Canadian deficit (US$51 billion) over the next two years to pay for it. The federal government has run a surplus for more than a decade.

"It is a contributing factor to the recovery we expect," Carney said.
The central bank's optimistic outlook for a recovery this summer, leading to robust 3.8 percent annual average growth next year, differs from many leading private-sector economists and parliamentary budget officer Kevin Page.
On Wednesday, both Page and IHS-Global Insight forecaster Dale Orr said the Canadian economy would not return to full capacity until 2013, two full years later than what the central bank predicts.

The credit crisis and the global sell off of commodities have slowed Canada's commodity-rich economy. Alberta's once booming oil sands sector has cooled as every major company has scrapped or delayed some expansion plans.

25The Canadian Economy Empty Re: The Canadian Economy Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:33 pm

Bartron

Bartron
major-contributor
major-contributor

The recession won't matter to me after I win tonight's 649

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