Candidates would you Cancel Asper Football Stadium Deal

Well there is only 2 of us on the forum.

I would, on Principle. I have no problem pushing this issue to really find out what the true bomber state of affairs really is.

I also have no problem waiting 5 years, 10 at most , while a deal is crafted

The only deal I can see is if the province just paid the fullshot with Federal help and the City lands could then be sold so we recouped our money.

Who ends up owning and operating the stadium/operating ( not the City ) would be up for discussion.

I have no interest in tying up the City in this deal as it stands.

Of course i have my own vision for how it should be funded, but thats another matter.

heh.. there are way more then two of us... just two of us honest enough to have open to the public discussions on the city.


Would I cancel the deal?
Could I cancel it without encountering a significant fee would be the first question I had. If yes, then yes. I would cancel the current deal.

My preference would be drop Creswin. They appear to bring nothing to the table, the high end retail at polo park is not going to happen any time soon so its either drop it now or wait until 2016 and drop it. By anyway, drop Creswin

Sell the current land at polo park in an open bidding process. PROVIDED that the bidder will bid our water park as part of the complex. They get the previously approved 7 mill for the water park, we get 100K per year in free passes to be used however council ends up deciding. They get city taxes waived on water park portion of the building. They cant close the waterpark without council, if they do, it reverts to our ownership. All other CITY taxes go towards paying off the stadium loan from the Province. WE "the city" takes ownership of the stadium and leases it at a reasonable rate to the bomber board. The bomber board ends up having 50% appointed by city council.. the other 50%? dont know.

Unless some totally awesome business group wants to do it for a profit and is willing to buy the team at a significant price.

(dont be fooled, there is huge money to be made from the retail/drinking establishment they want to set up in the stadium...you do know that is what Asper really was after right?)

So cancel deal YES


But why would you want any part in the new Stadium ? Have you seen the mess that the Convention Center is ? Would they form another "arms length' entity, ugh. Why not just sell the land and tax whoever buys it.

Why should City taxes go to pay for the Stadium if feds and provinces would fund, or are you saying City rather then Feds should be involved ?

Not sure i like the idea of St.james taxes going to pay off a building in another burb, ( both you and i know , we'd be making a stink about that. In essence, its their money )

Waterpark funding , reasonable.But if we took it over , it would have to be a separate building and not inclusive of a mall or whoever wanted to build something, like an office complex, or god forbid, someone had the guts to build Condo's.

Bomber ownership - you would still want the City to own it ? Hmmmm, not against it but not really for it. Reminds me of the sordid little group Winnipeg Enterprises was it ?

Not fooled that Asper wants to get everything for free and profit from it ala MTS Center with the added bonus his firm makes millions from the build.



OK, now everyone can jump in.

Well why wouldn't Asper buy the team himself? Or is there some Shenkarow issue he'd be concerned with by not getting revenues from services. I'm sure he could work out a deal with university and province.

Personally i don't think the City should be involved at any level seeing that the university May/may not be tax exempt, and province would be the owner of the facility.

Just using the current deal as a template is all my reason for including the city in the deal.

Plus, we need to deal with the "community ownership" idea.

What mess is the convention center in? Please be specific.
The renovated bar? has 16 sofas , loveseats and arm chairs that were made in Winnipeg, by the best sofa manufacturer in North America.
The next time you are there drinking or buying me coffee and a donut, check under the cushions for the label! lol

CC requires regular infusions of money from taxpayers to function. Not quite sure if taxpayers are capturing a good return by the current structure and then we have an incredibly strong and rigid Union Structure.

So strong, that it's difficult for me to rent a manlift and operate it myself. Very frustrating to work in. If I don't get a Union hand who used to be a City Civil servant prior to current structure, they won't do anything outside their job description, including moving a table or chair. Not to mention this push for a hundred million dollar plus push to expand and renovate.

Just using the current deal as a template is all my reason for including the city in the deal.


And what makes you think the City isn't involved. We are. We ok'd the land deal. We ok'd the tax transfer for future payments to stadium. In essence, we are buying a potion of this stadium with St. James tax transfers. If you extrapolate it , taxpayers lose money on the taxes which would be paid on the Polo Park land.

I think selling the land, capturing 20 Million or so , then taxing whoever moves in , gives the taxpayer a better return.

But that leaves us the little issue called the Blue Bombers.

As for Community Ownership. I still don't have any idea what that is and who owns the team. I think they've shown their inability to be creative investors by not leveraging a piece of property they rent for a buck a year. So who owns the bombers and rents the stadium and surrounding lands for a buck a year, and why are salaries ( management I was told ) guaranteed by the City.

I find it odd that you lay claim to St. James taxes going to fund a Fort Garry stadium. I doubt anyone in the city wants to get involved in such a discussion.

Perhaps this scenario unfolds: every dime collected in taxes in River Heights is spent in River Heights. Not one dime to support any North End project...

Livio, I have heard how poorly you operate a manlift, and it is for the public's benefit that you be restricted from damaging City property! lol

I find it odd that you lay claim to St. James taxes going to fund a Fort Garry stadium


But that is what is going to happen.

I merely stated that Dean or i would make it an issue in an election campaign. On Council floor I would ask that rules be followed. Is that to much to ask ?



As for your example, the issue is this as defined by the Black Rod.

Under the Tax Increment Financing legislation, any new taxes from newly developed land must be spent in the area the development takes place. That's the incentive to develop the undeveloped land. What you pay now will be recouped later.

http://blackrod.blogspot.com/2010/08/logic-lacking-aspers-stadium-and-your.html


This is how I understood the law. Is this wrong, or , are you saying we should just cut a deal. Personally, I will have to set my compass and the only thing that i can do is use the law as a basis for my decisions. But, if it is the will of Council to change it, well, that is another debate.

Rosen, I am very delicate on a manlift. I can even make it do a wheelie, and if you asked me I could tip one over, fully extended

Who says that Tax increment financing is what will be used?

87% of Winnipeger's prefer not to spend any money on anything forever! That is why 87% of our citizens complain about 100% of all expenditures .
This 87% goes up to 97% when Asper's name or Katz' or Shindleman's name is involved.
They claim that they should have been phoned, or called on to help their elected members get their input into the expenditure. This 97% want to be called upon when the city, municipality or Provincial or Federal members want to spend over $1000 of their hard taxed earnings. I happen to agree with the above statement, ecause I know that would end any and all expenditures, which is a good thing.
Winnipeg wouldn't own a helicopter at $3,000,000 per year that will fly about 5 hours per week getting the Mayor, the police chief and their wives, family, girlfriends to shop at Costco!
This would prevent the $16 Billion dollar expenditure for 1.6 Mach jet planes to prevent Molitovio from invading Canada!
Thos would sace Canada from owning a fleet of submarines that don't work.
This would have saved 155 lives of Canadian soldiers from being in Afghanistan!